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Post by kellyd on Jan 9, 2009 18:21:18 GMT -5
Tash, your story just broke my heart & raised my blood pressure. I know you must be hurting too - especially about the 6mo foal, who was safe, until sam killed him.
Does anyone remember Sofisticate (Sofie/Sophia)? The old blackish mare, who probably had cushings, as she was shaggy? It was in either the fall of 07 or in 08.
I finished off her bail, but it was later posted that chuck shipped her. I was so upset, that I was going to leave cber. Was it a case of mistaken identity....or not...
Anyway, I have always wondered if it was sam's intention to ship Sofie all along & keep the $$. And, then all of a sudden, we learn that Sofie was safe after all.
And, I have always wondered if chuck really did sell Kiona out from under cber/me. I paid his bail/QT & was an approved adopter. He was a small red/white paint. This was in July/Aug. 07. (I ended up taking another horse).
I wonder what really happened to him. Or if this was the truth.
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 9, 2009 18:25:53 GMT -5
No, it was no mistake. Sofie was there the whole time but as Marlene point blank told me... "someone had to ship and that horse didn't have any teeth". You cannot imagine the shock I felt at hearing those words delivered in such a callous manner. I immediately was calling Sam and Michelle and Wendy. I was ranting and raving and folks thought I was going to quit and I thought so too. Eventually Sam agreed to pull Sofie after all. Sam had never wanted to list Sofie in the first place, but she left it up to me so I listed her and made myself her PS because I felt so bad for Sofie. Sofie was the worst fight I ever had with Sam and it was when a great distance started to build.
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Post by kellyd on Jan 9, 2009 18:49:35 GMT -5
So even though Sofie's bail had been paid, was it her plan to ship her anyway?
Was it a lie that we were told that she shipped?
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Post by rodeo51 on Jan 9, 2009 18:49:35 GMT -5
These horses mean everything to me and CBER used to as well. The whole time I was volunteering for CBER I was putting my whole heart into the organization who had allowed me to save my horse, Tarkh. I gave up so much for CBER... tens of thousands of dollars, thousands of hours, friends, family etc. For so long I was CBER's defender. I was called CBER's "pit bull" and Sam actually assigned me to defending CBER on these boards. I believed in CBER and Sam 110%. I really cannot express to you how much I believed in CBER... it was such devotion that any time I heard anything negative about CBER I immediately became defensive and I almost felt as though my own self was being attacked. My faith in CBER was absolute and I felt that they were doing God's work and saving those poor horses. I thought they were Angels and I felt privileged to be able to help. Eventually I started to learn too much. To see too many things. To become aware of lies, deceit, pettiness, fraud, and serious unethical financial issues. But still I was unwavering. The horses were being saved and that was what mattered. It was all for the horses. Then there was Spring. Spring was bailed with money for QT and someone told me that Spring had shipped. I called Sam about it and asked and she said she had just seen Spring the other day in QT and she sent me a picture of Spring and said she was doing well. My degree is in multimedia and I could tell the picture of Spring was a falsified one... it was of a different horse with Springs colors and markings applied to it. I called Sam and asked her about it. Finally she admitted to me that she had never pulled Spring off the lot. She had the money to pull her and money for QT, but instead left her then to ship to slaughter. There was no remorse. But still I stayed with CBER. I felt that what happened to Spring was a terrible mistake but that all the other horses at least were safe. Then there was a campout and Sam got drunk. She told about Peachy and some other horses that were shipped or sent to Wayne to kill. But again I looked the other way. Then there was Lavendar, Meadow, Dandelion and Vesper. All shipped out together and all dead before anyone had any idea what was happening. When she went to the lot to get one mare and had the money for her but instead decided to pull another horse because it was "nicer". Even though the first mare had a home and people who wanted her. Then when she herself told me that she took Maple, a 2 year old filly with a home to go to, back to the lot and traded her for a more marketable horse named Midge... which was sold outside of CBER and the money kept privately. And when the great lie was told about Cozumel that he had a home down in New Mexico... then the story changed and he was at a trainers in WA... when in reality Sam had sent him off to die. I started to become suspicious now, but still supported CBER. They were saving horses, right? Horses with no other hope! Then I heard about folks going to the lot and getting one of the horses that CBER had listed. Sam was furious and I didn't understand why. The horse was safe, why does it matter that it didn't go through CBER. She ranted and raved and called Chuck and insisted that no listed horse be allowed to be sold outside of CBER. These horses might have been saved outside of CBER but she created a situation in which CBER was now their only hope. This was not about the horses. Then I started to learn about more horses that were sent to KBs or back to the lot.... Aqua Bay, Spruce, Moonstruck, Coffee, Lauren, Autumn, Perfection, Shining Star, Warm Mahagony, Sonja and more... I spoke to a KB at my local auction and he told me that he had bought horses from CBER too. He thought it was amusing that they "rescued" horses from one KB and then sold them to another. I spoke to the rest of the BOD and we called for a vote. We wanted to make official policy that CBER would not take any horses back to the feedlot or send them to any KBs. The vote won the majority but was then vetoed by Sam. She would not allow such a policy. What kind of a rescue will not implement a policy not to send their horses to slaughter? That was enough for me. Myself and the majority of the BODs all quit together. At this point all those BODs are gone and the longest standing volunteer is Karan who has only been there since the beginning of April. Everyone else has walked away but new people keep joining and not understanding the past. After I was already gone I learned that more horses had gone to kill. Including a six month old foal that I had offered to home myself. He was a reservation horse... a little black appaloosa colt and I named him Cocoa. His mother a white Appy mare named Powdered Sugar was sent off with him. That is when I began my crusade against CBER. It was for the killing of a foal who had a home to go to but instead they chose to send him to a KB. WHY? That is the question that resonates in my soul. WHY would they rather see a foal dead then in an approved home? I was an approved adopter and adopted horses both before and after that foal... I was a bloody BOD member at the time he was sent off... why did they leave him to die? He was SAFE! He had been in QT for over a month! He was sent from safety, from a home offer, to a KB. People ask what will happen to the horses now... I will tell you. I highly doubt that CBER is going to give up and let someone else rescue out of there... but if they do, there are other rescues and individuals who are willing to step up. CBER is not rescuing horses, they are making money... the horses are a side effect and are treated as such. The list of horses that they have betrayed could go on and on and on... and Sam tells her lies tailor made to fit whoever she is speaking to. She is one of the most charismatic people that I have ever met and she tells you exactly what you want to hear. It is a real gift with her, but she is not using it for good. Very sobering and sad
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 9, 2009 18:52:26 GMT -5
Kelly, Sofie never shipped. Sam had this... plan, you see. She felt that horses had to be "lost" every so often of people would grow complacent and not be so desperate to save them. She told me this. Explained it to me.
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Post by kellyd on Jan 9, 2009 18:54:00 GMT -5
Kelly, Sofie never shipped. Sam had this... plan, you see. She felt that horses had to be "lost" every so often of people would grow complacent and not be so desperate to save them. She told me this. Explained it to me. It was posted that she was adopted. Is that true?
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 9, 2009 18:55:11 GMT -5
Yes. She is happy down in California. There are updates posted on this board.
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Post by halfwayhome on Jan 9, 2009 19:10:16 GMT -5
Kelly, Sofie never shipped. Sam had this... plan, you see. She felt that horses had to be "lost" every so often of people would grow complacent and not be so desperate to save them. She told me this. Explained it to me. I can confirm that Sam would do this, she said this to me too about that it made people save more next time if a listed horse or horses shipped. She often made Chuck the "bad guy" in shipping deals when it was actually really her decision. I don't know if many of you remember "Morris" a, dark brown bay young stud colt of QH type that was on the lot in 2005 I think. He had people who wanted to save him and in fact specified sending money for him, although I never got to see the accounts to know if they did or not. However, the truck came and Chuck was willing to keep him back because I told him we had someone interested. However Sam wanted to keep back a new horse that wasn't listed yet and said to let him ship. I tried to argue about that but couldn't, and was told he was an unhand led stud colt and would be too hard to deal with. However he did have people that knew this and wanted to help him. In the end, it did no good, even when Chuck said, "are you sure?" She said yes and let him go. I always always felt bad about that and she lied and said Chuck said he had to go to "fill a spot". That is another common lie... Yes, it did happen once in a while legitimately, but other times she used it as an excuse. I also remember a similar thing happening to a horse even Wendy was trying to save, a little black mustang who was very mischievous. I had him separated and pulled when the truck was coming as he was supposed to be saved, but Sam didn't like his attitude as he would act studdy and herd other horses around and that day he p*ssed her off and she said to ship that SOB, that was OK with Chuck, but he did ask if she really meant it and she did. There are similar circumstances and others were lost...
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Post by swissgrl on Jan 9, 2009 19:14:47 GMT -5
OMG, I remember Morris, somebody PM'd me and offered to bail him if I could take him, I know somebody else had already expressed interest in him at that point, but there were multiple offers from people to send his bail.
That person that offered to pay bail left after that episode, she was so upset. I know a lot of us were, but we only knew a young horse shipped, we didn't know the whole story.
Modified spelling errors.
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Post by michelle on Jan 9, 2009 19:20:49 GMT -5
Kelly, Sofie never shipped. Sam had this... plan, you see. She felt that horses had to be "lost" every so often of people would grow complacent and not be so desperate to save them. She told me this. Explained it to me. I can confirm that Sam would do this, she said this to me too about that it made people save more next time if a listed horse or horses shipped. She often made Chuck the "bad guy" in shipping deals when it was actually really her decision. I don't know if many of you remember "Morris" a, dark brown bay young stud colt of QH type that was on the lot in 2005 I think. He had people who wanted to save him and in fact specified sending money for him, although I never got to see the accounts to know if they did or not. However, the truck came and Chuck was willing to keep him back because I told him we had someone interested. However Sam wanted to keep back a new horse that wasn't listed yet and said to let him ship. I tried to argue about that but couldn't, and was told he was an unhand led stud colt and would be too hard to deal with. However he did have people that knew this and wanted to help him. In the end, it did no good, even when Chuck said, "are you sure?" She said yes and let him go. I always always felt bad about that and she lied and said Chuck said he had to go to "fill a spot". That is another common lie... Yes, it did happen once in a while legitimately, but other times she used it as an excuse. I also remember a similar thing happening to a horse even Wendy was trying to save, a little black mustang who was very mischievous. I had him separated and pulled when the truck was coming as he was supposed to be saved, but Sam didn't like his attitude as he would act studdy and herd other horses around and that day he p*ssed her off and she said to ship that SOB, that was OK with Chuck, but he did ask if she really meant it and she did. There are similar circumstances and others were lost... Was that Gibson??? Losing him was devastating. He was a little black mustang w/ an attitude, and if no one came for him, I would have adopted him. She knew that.
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Post by agilitygal on Jan 9, 2009 19:27:52 GMT -5
I remember Morris. . .and. . .the young black mustang. I remember them very, very, very well. Sad. Very sad.
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Jan 9, 2009 19:36:13 GMT -5
Tash, your story just broke my heart & raised my blood pressure. I know you must be hurting too - especially about the 6mo foal, who was safe, until sam killed him. Does anyone remember Sofisticate (Sofie/Sophia)? The old blackish mare, who probably had cushings, as she was shaggy? It was in either the fall of 07 or in 08. I paid for her bail, but it was later posted that chuck shipped her. I was so upset, that I was going to leave cber. Funny, after sam heard that, miraculously, Sofie was still there. It was a case of mistaken identity....or was it... Anyway, I have always wondered if it was sam's intention to ship Sofie all along & keep the $$, but then when she learned that I wouldn't be donating any more $$, she said that Sofie was safe after all. And, I have always wondered if chuck really did sell Kiona out from under cber/me. I paid his bail/QT & was an approved adopter. He was a small red/white paint. This was in July/Aug. 07. (I ended up taking another horse). I wonder what really happened to him. Or if this was the truth. I still have Sofie's picture on my wallpaper on my home pc......And I still need to make it a point to go and see Vicki and meet both of them in person!
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Post by halfwayhome on Jan 9, 2009 19:53:15 GMT -5
I can confirm that Sam would do this, she said this to me too about that it made people save more next time if a listed horse or horses shipped. She often made Chuck the "bad guy" in shipping deals when it was actually really her decision. I don't know if many of you remember "Morris" a, dark brown bay young stud colt of QH type that was on the lot in 2005 I think. He had people who wanted to save him and in fact specified sending money for him, although I never got to see the accounts to know if they did or not. However, the truck came and Chuck was willing to keep him back because I told him we had someone interested. However Sam wanted to keep back a new horse that wasn't listed yet and said to let him ship. I tried to argue about that but couldn't, and was told he was an unhand led stud colt and would be too hard to deal with. However he did have people that knew this and wanted to help him. In the end, it did no good, even when Chuck said, "are you sure?" She said yes and let him go. I always always felt bad about that and she lied and said Chuck said he had to go to "fill a spot". That is another common lie... Yes, it did happen once in a while legitimately, but other times she used it as an excuse. I also remember a similar thing happening to a horse even Wendy was trying to save, a little black mustang who was very mischievous. I had him separated and pulled when the truck was coming as he was supposed to be saved, but Sam didn't like his attitude as he would act studdy and herd other horses around and that day he p*ssed her off and she said to ship that SOB, that was OK with Chuck, but he did ask if she really meant it and she did. There are similar circumstances and others were lost... Was that Gibson??? Losing him was devastating. He was a little black mustang w/ an attitude, and if no one came for him, I would have adopted him. She knew that. Yes, that was him, Gibson. Will never forget that, he was so happy when I let him out of the alley when sorting them, he ran into the big pen and was herding some of the others around, "yippee yippee" and he ran some back that they were moving toward the alleys and it made them mad, so they ran him in with them and S said to let him go. Chuck said we could separate him out again and I said yes lets move him back out, because Wendy had told me she liked the mustangs and I thought we could find him a home, but Sam said she didn't like him when he ran at her and to go ahead and let him go. He was one I always thought would have made a great pony to teach tricks too, he was very very smart and into everything.
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Post by redhorse on Jan 9, 2009 19:58:52 GMT -5
CBER is not rescuing horses, they are making money... the horses are a side effect and are treated as such. The list of horses that they have betrayed could go on and on and on... and Sam tells her lies tailor made to fit whoever she is speaking to. She is one of the most charismatic people that I have ever met and she tells you exactly what you want to hear. It is a real gift with her, but she is not using it for good. There is a clinical term for such behaviors: Antisocial Personality Disorder is also known as psychopathy or sociopathy. Individuals with this disorder have little regard for the feeling and welfare of others. As a clinical diagnosis it is usually limited to those over age 18. It can be diagnosed in younger people if the they commit isolated antisocial acts and do not show signs of another mental disorder.
Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general symptoms:
not learning from experience no sense of responsibility inability to form meaningful relationships inability to control impulses lack of moral sense chronically antisocial behavior no change in behavior after punishment emotional immaturity lack of guilt self-centeredness
People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit suddenly. They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare or rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness, failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility, and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of others are traits of the antisocial personality. The best anti-dote is truth telling. Nice to see that the truth so long sought is finally revealed.
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Post by drjinva on Jan 9, 2009 20:02:00 GMT -5
You know, I never even met these horses. Some of them, I never even saw their picture. But I still have tears in my eyes reading about how they were betrayed.
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Post by michelle on Jan 9, 2009 20:16:30 GMT -5
CBER is not rescuing horses, they are making money... the horses are a side effect and are treated as such. The list of horses that they have betrayed could go on and on and on... and Sam tells her lies tailor made to fit whoever she is speaking to. She is one of the most charismatic people that I have ever met and she tells you exactly what you want to hear. It is a real gift with her, but she is not using it for good. There is a clinical term for such behaviors: Antisocial Personality Disorder is also known as psychopathy or sociopathy. Individuals with this disorder have little regard for the feeling and welfare of others. As a clinical diagnosis it is usually limited to those over age 18. It can be diagnosed in younger people if the they commit isolated antisocial acts and do not show signs of another mental disorder.
Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general symptoms:
not learning from experience no sense of responsibility inability to form meaningful relationships inability to control impulses lack of moral sense chronically antisocial behavior no change in behavior after punishment emotional immaturity lack of guilt self-centeredness
People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit suddenly. They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare or rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness, failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility, and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of others are traits of the antisocial personality. The best anti-dote is truth telling. Nice to see that the truth so long sought is finally revealed. I was reading a book called High Risk, by Dr. Ken Magid. It is about the prevalence of APD in society today, and the descriptions they gave, it was just amazing how they fit Sam, like they knew her and were describing her. It explains so much. Like how Jeff's crimes do not matter to her, and why she does so many other things that are coming out now. Her background fits as well. I think you are exactly right in your assessment. Also, people with APD do not change into people with a conscience. There is no cure, no drug, therapy, hypnosis, whatever. She is what she is, and as long as she is involved in rescue in any way, things will never change. This is exactly the kind of person that you DON'T want involved with vulnerable populations.
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Post by Tate on Jan 9, 2009 20:32:39 GMT -5
I remember Gibson and Morris very well, Gibson broke my heart. He was around the same time as my beloved Hot Lips was on the lot. I also donated to Sofies bail and was seeing red when I read she shipped, I even was going to have Neil go to Florence Pack and try to buy her, that was the last week I was a CBER member. It was just a few weeks after the weekend at camelot.
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Post by caryn on Jan 9, 2009 20:33:16 GMT -5
Was that Gibson??? Losing him was devastating. He was a little black mustang w/ an attitude, and if no one came for him, I would have adopted him. She knew that. Yes, that was him, Gibson. Will never forget that, he was so happy when I let him out of the alley when sorting them, he ran into the big pen and was herding some of the others around, "yippee yippee" and he ran some back that they were moving toward the alleys and it made them mad, so they ran him in with them and S said to let him go. Chuck said we could separate him out again and I said yes lets move him back out, because Wendy had told me she liked the mustangs and I thought we could find him a home, but Sam said she didn't like him when he ran at her and to go ahead and let him go. He was one I always thought would have made a great pony to teach tricks too, he was very very smart and into everything. OMG!!!! It just keeps getting worse. Gibson is special to me because he was the very first horse that I tried to save. I had just discovered the CBER site. I wasn't ready to adopt another horse because I already had 2. I hadn't even found the BB yet. I sent in $200 as a donation and asked that it go to help him get into the foster program. The next day he had "shipped" by his picture. I didn't know what that meant and frantically emailed his PS, Kim Clark. That was when I found out what "shipped" meant. I was so horrified. I had nightmares. I joined the BB and started volunteering shortly after that. Losing him had me so fearful of losing more that I quickly bailed Calumet after that. She had been held off the truck, but was still at risk. My god...I just feel sick and it keeps getting worse When Gypsy ( CBER Fay ) came around, another little mustang, I offered to foster her and before she reached California, I had adopted her. I am very glad that I did because I love her dearly, but I always felt guilty that I did not jump in and adopt Gibson as soon as I had seen him.
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Post by cinda56 on Jan 9, 2009 21:41:31 GMT -5
Is that what happened to Rolex? I know that he was marked pending then suddenly he shipped. That one really got to me........
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Post by fairazelle on Jan 9, 2009 23:19:09 GMT -5
Hey this is Nickie former CBER volunteer. (adopted Wrangler[now Rory] and Bambi[now Emma]) I wasn't in the "inner circle" and didn't have access to a lot of the inner info. I was too far away too, to have a lot of personal experiences. My departure was a slow one, over time as more and more things just weren't fitting together quite right. Back in 2005 you could bail a horse and when it was adopted, get your money back. Well, I must have bailed around 10 horses (can't even remember them all now) Snowflake, Pumpkin, Thumbelina, Felicity, Ember, and more. One was a chestnut Arab gelding in his teens, Caspian, that I was told "died" while he was in QT at what I am pretty sure was Wayne's, but never got a good explanation how (I can't remember who I talked to, he may have legitimately passed on...I hope so). I thought I would look like a chump if I asked for my money back on him since they had had paid for him. Thumbelina also "froze to death" at the lot right after I sent in funds. So I said to use her's to bail another. Anyway, so I adopt Wrangler off of the lot in Jan '06 as a gelding (turns out he was much more of a man than that) and then Bambi a month later. By this time I am starting to really hurt financially. I have two extra horses to board (although Julianne was an absolute LIFESAVER with them and helped me out immensly) as well as 5 here at home, so I am hoping that some of these fostered horses get adopted so I can get some money back. (yes, I know it was incredibly stupid to take such financial risks, but I just couldn't let them ship, you all know how it is) So we all know how little effort was put into adopting out foster horses, so they sat at their foster homes for months. Everyone has heard about Chai, Latte, Coffee, and Felicity. I was involved a bit in that, talking with their foster home trying to get updates and relaying to CBER that she needed them moved. Again and again. Obviously nothing was done until later. Then after they were finally at CBER I was told I needed to help pay for board since I was her "sponsor". I said I couldn't, and that I was actually waiting for her to be adopted so I could be reimbursed. I found out later that she had been given away to Lifesavers. I have to say, that I am very glad she ended up there. Especially after hearing what happened to the others. And again, the same thing happened with Bonzi. Foster home needed her moved. No response from CBER for months. They FINALLY got her and then told me I needed to pay for board (and this time I was NOT her sponsor, I had just donated part of her bail). And of course all of the little things gnawed away at me to. The lack of communication from Sam, all of the drama etc. Then I started slowly getting excluded from emails and info....I just kind of let it happen. I was tired of it all. Then of course I was talking a bit with Laurie (losadoon), who I trusted was sane and not prone to overreaction or leaping to conclusions...as well as others on and off too. It all just left a bad taste in my mouth. I was steadfast like you Tash for a while. I defended and believed. I am finding it so sad to read all of this new info. Morris and Gibson...I remember the late nights pulling and fighting for these horses, the commraderie all of us on the BB had and the crazy PMs and posts in the wee hours. I missed you guys! ;D Laurie, did you really have to pay for Dream twice?! They didn't refund your money after you paid me?
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 9, 2009 23:33:03 GMT -5
Kelly, Sofie never shipped. Sam had this... plan, you see. She felt that horses had to be "lost" every so often of people would grow complacent and not be so desperate to save them. She told me this. Explained it to me. I can confirm that Sam would do this, she said this to me too about that it made people save more next time if a listed horse or horses shipped. She often made Chuck the "bad guy" in shipping deals when it was actually really her decision. I don't know if many of you remember "Morris" a, dark brown bay young stud colt of QH type that was on the lot in 2005 I think. He had people who wanted to save him and in fact specified sending money for him, although I never got to see the accounts to know if they did or not. However, the truck came and Chuck was willing to keep him back because I told him we had someone interested. However Sam wanted to keep back a new horse that wasn't listed yet and said to let him ship. I tried to argue about that but couldn't, and was told he was an unhand led stud colt and would be too hard to deal with. However he did have people that knew this and wanted to help him. In the end, it did no good, even when Chuck said, "are you sure?" She said yes and let him go. I always always felt bad about that and she lied and said Chuck said he had to go to "fill a spot". That is another common lie... Yes, it did happen once in a while legitimately, but other times she used it as an excuse. I also remember a similar thing happening to a horse even Wendy was trying to save, a little black mustang who was very mischievous. I had him separated and pulled when the truck was coming as he was supposed to be saved, but Sam didn't like his attitude as he would act studdy and herd other horses around and that day he p*ssed her off and she said to ship that SOB, that was OK with Chuck, but he did ask if she really meant it and she did. There are similar circumstances and others were lost... What a wonderful woman to be running a rescue. Sam must be very proud of herself. Manipulating peoples feelings by killing the horses we became attached to. I bet she was really happy when Painter shipped. God I remember that one. It was when my daughter was interested in the board. She was 14 at the time and stood here and cried with me when we read the news he was gone.
I wish I believed in Karma, but really I do not. Sam needs to get her just dues at the hand of the law. I have known a couple really mean people who lived long lives and NEVER regretted one single thing they ever did to anyone. They could always justify their behavior in their own twisted mind. I figure if there is no hell, then people need to be punished here on earth. Not somewhere that may or may not exist.
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Post by caryn on Jan 9, 2009 23:34:23 GMT -5
Hi Nickie, It's good to "see" you here. I thought that you just got busy and sort of drifted away from volunteering. I've missed ya. So sad to hear that you had these problems...Hope all is well with you and I'd love to hear about Rory and Emma. Felicity ending up at with Angi was definitely a good thing. I've gotten to meet Angi a few times and I have been to Lifesavers. I cannot say enough good things about both
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 9, 2009 23:51:42 GMT -5
Nickie, I missed seeing your post. It took me along time to write mine I guess. I had to pay the extra $100 that you had already paid. They did not tell me until I was there to pick her up. Even though I had talked to them several times in the days prior to getting Dream. Dream is doing great by the way. She is in with Dancer, Teddies filly. They get along great. I will have to send you a picture. After winter of course, cause she is such a mud ball right now. We forgot to mention that they were going to let me adopt Dream before you had even given them the go ahead to do so.
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Post by fairazelle on Jan 10, 2009 0:22:27 GMT -5
Caryn- Good to see you too! How are your babies doing? Rory is doing fantabulous! He is adored where he is at and is getting lots of training. I went to see him for their Halloween party and they had him dressed up as Batman. Haven't talked to the folks who have Emma in a bit. Is Felicity still with Angi, or has she been adopted? Laurie-Glad to hear she's doing good! They were probably hoping that if you paid and I wanted to keep Dream, then they could sucker you into another. Sad, sad, sad.
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Post by caryn on Jan 10, 2009 0:33:03 GMT -5
My babies are good Gypsy and I have been on some adventures together (beach, various trail rides...) and I'm riding her regularly now. I still have to trim her feet myself, but I'm thinking that she will let my farrier do it if my farrier ever wants to give it another try Dream is doing well and has become my boy's companion. Sterling has a stifle injury and should not live with another horse that will make him move around too much. Dream's perfect for him and he's perfect for her...Sterling is only 9 and has quite a bit of energy, so he keeps Dreamy moving around ( she needs it to keep from getting stiff in her hind legs ) and she never pushes him I'm glad you found the perfect home for Rory. He is one of my all-time favorites. If you can fanagle a pic of him as batman, you'll get big cyber hugs from me. I haven't heard about Felicity lately, but I "think" that Angi found her a home. Tockita would know for sure and will hopefully chime in on this thread. If you need her email addy, I can pass it on. Wow, we've been through so much. I cannot believe it has been 4 years since I heard of and immediately started helping out with CBER. What's coming out is very sad and disturbing. Breaks my heart, but at least I know I'm finally hearing the truth...
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Post by jenm on Jan 10, 2009 0:34:18 GMT -5
Wow....reading these recent posts is heart breaking...I too, remember the late night rallies trying to gather funds and find last minute homes before the trucks would come.
What I didn't know is that Sam was the one calling the shots. She always used to tell me that it was Chuck's decision to grab a CBER horse and ship it to fill a spot. There were times when she said Chuck got mad at a horse and made it ship even if it could have been sold to a real home.
Yeah, my heart is breaking and I am so sad to hear still more stories of horses that could have been saved but were sent to their deaths just because Sam was in a bad mood or PMS-ing.
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Post by countrygirl on Jan 10, 2009 0:37:01 GMT -5
I have to say that I am just STUNNED by what Kelly, Tash and Heidi have just revealed. It is a never ending string of one horrific story after another. It makes me sick. Sam has certainly perfected her skill of sucking people in hasn't she. She has no heart but she certainly has learned how to use other peoples kindness for her personal profit. Will it ever end???.
I had been involved with CBER almost from the very beginning - before there was a billboard. At one time I was very proud to be associated with them and personally saved at least 9 horses from the lot. I was Proud of the good that we as a group were abl e to accomplish. Although I was never very active in a lot of BB discussions, I have always been very active reading the stories, cheering people on, crying over the lives lost, and rejoicing in the many victories. This board (in all the various forms) have been a big part of my life over the last 5 years. I have loved many of the horses from afar, adopted or not. In the early days, I think CBER was a respectable rescue doing many good things for horses.
Over the years there were lots of little cues that things weren't as they should be. Up until about a year I chose to ignore them for the good of the horses. It has been pretty obvious that things regarding the finances weren’t right, and hadn’t been right for a long time. Although I believe it happened slowly over time. I have been convinced for a long time that more money was coming in than was being credited or accounted for. It was common for more money to be pledged for a horse than was actually needed. I assumed it was just the big hurry everyone was in at "TRUCK TIME" and noone really noticed that excess money was being raised. I also assumed the excess funds were always used to care for or pull other horses so it didn't matter. For years I totally believed in CBER and their mission. I told everyone I knew about CBER and the horses on the website. I felt just like the current supporters felt. I remember how proud I felt for being part of this wonderful organization and this wonderful group of people.
As time went on and more and more people got involved in fund raising, making donations, and cheerleading etc,. it seemed like the "confusion" over the finances grew. People were asking questions about the money etc and there were never any answers. I also noticed that long after a horse was "paid for with donations" the horse would still be listed as needing funds. People would still be trying to drum up funds on the BB to bail the horse to safety (sometimes all night long), yet the horses was already off the lot at Sam's place. Sam's excuse was that the money that was pledged routinely didn't come in and so they had to keep the dollars coming in. Plus any excess $$ went to care for the horses so what difference did it make - right? As time went on I also noticed more and more that after the truck was supposed to have come there would be no updates as to which horses shipped or not. It used to be an hour or two before we would hear and towards the end it was sometimes a couple of days. This used to really iritate me. I felt that it was in poor taste of Sam to make those who worked tirelessly through the night to get the horses safe, wait for days before hearing whether or not the horses were safe. I felt like she didn’t understand or care how important these horse had become to the supporters. To me it said that Sam had no respect for her supporters. People would say "poor Sam, she works so hard, it must be so hard on her to be there. Yeah right.
There were several little signs in the later years that showed to me that Sam has little respect for her supporters. But.....it is about the horses and horses were being saved. That is all that matters. CBER was the last resort for these poor soals and without CBER these horses were doomed. Despite all the signs of financial impropriety, I assumed that We were adults and each of us could decide whether or not we wanted to donate $$ to save horses or adopt horses. I never really understood how the “truth seekers” could just turn their backs on the horses. It was about the horses, not the money. I really didn't care about the money. It was the faces of the horses that tugged at my heart. I wanted to help. Even as more and more stories came out about how Sam was using the donations for her personal gain and not being truthful about how the "rescue" was being run, I still didn't really care. WE were the last resort for the horses and without CBER these horses would die.
It wasn't until the Lavender and Meadow episode that I changed my mind. For me it was always about the horses. Saving lives and sparing these beautiful horses from that awful trip to the slaughterhouse. Although I was very frustrated about the way Sam ran CBER, and how poorly she always handled all the "miss-communications", I never doubted that she was in it for the horses. She was a bad business person with a good heart. Until Lavender and Meadow.
In rescue I think you have to be realistic. You can't save them all. Sometimes you can save them from a horrific death but will still need to euthanize them because they have no where to go and no money to support them. Sometimes you have to make a tough decision. But to shoot a horse (2 horses) without even trying to find it a home? When you have a BB audience of a couple thousand people, some of who repeatedly ask about the horses, you don't even mention that they are in need of a place to go. You just shoot them? And you lie for months that they were adopted to hide the fact that you shot them. Is this just a bad business decision?? I wondered. Then it starts coming out that several horses were "taken care of " this way. Does a legitimate rescue do this?? Then it comes out that horses are intentionally sent back to the feedlot and shipped to slaughter after they have already been bailed, QT paid for, and have a home offer. Who does this??? Do you stop the adoption of a horse in need because the horse wasn’t adopted through the rescue? Certainly not the President of a rescue who cares about the future of the horses..
It all became too much for me. I could no longer support CBER in any way. I hate the fact that these horses have no alternatives. I hate that people send them there. I hate the way they are treated. I also hate the fact that Sam turned a wonderful rescue into such a fraud. She has taken advantage of so many people who give their hard earned and much needed money to save horses. How does anyone condem a 6 month old foal to slaughter when you have a choice not to? How do you send a beautiful 2 year old filly to a horrific death when she has been paid for, had QT paid for, and had a loving adopter who wanted to give her a forever home. How do you shoot horses when there are people who are willing to give them a home?
Supporting CBER and letting Sam continue to run CBER (President or not) is allowing her to continue to play God with horses lives. It is telling her that it is ok to send a horse to it's death because she is mad at it, or she doesn't like the way it looks, or she doesn’t like the adopter. It is allowing her to take peoples hard earned money that was intended to save a life, without saving the life. Supporting CBER means supporting someone who thinks it is ok to shoot horses, or sell them to Kill buyers because she doesn't want to use any more donated funds to support the horse. I can't support CBER as long as Sam has the ability to make any decisions about a horses’ life or has access to people's hard earned money. God bless all the horses who have lost their life because of Sam and her twisted ideas about who should live and who should die. I pray that someday this nightmare will end. I hope that people will wise up and stop supporting Sam. I hope that in the future CBER will continue on with a new, honest, horse loving President that we can all believe in and that many more horses can be saved.
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Post by caryn on Jan 10, 2009 0:47:54 GMT -5
Well said countrygirl.
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Post by horsesrkewl on Jan 10, 2009 0:50:35 GMT -5
Very well put Countrygirl, summed up pretty much how I felt.
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Post by Tockita on Jan 10, 2009 1:12:28 GMT -5
Yes, that was him, Gibson. Will never forget that, he was so happy when I let him out of the alley when sorting them, he ran into the big pen and was herding some of the others around, "yippee yippee" and he ran some back that they were moving toward the alleys and it made them mad, so they ran him in with them and S said to let him go. Chuck said we could separate him out again and I said yes lets move him back out, because Wendy had told me she liked the mustangs and I thought we could find him a home, but Sam said she didn't like him when he ran at her and to go ahead and let him go. He was one I always thought would have made a great pony to teach tricks too, he was very very smart and into everything. This make me very sad to hear. We have a too smart, mischievous, little black mustang nqamed Chester. he herds the other horses too much, (except Symphony of course) and we LOVE him! He limbos under bars, can open any gate latch, and loves balls almost as much as Freedom. It's a tragedy that there were people able and willing to QT and others to adopt the un(der) handled horses but that they were not allowed to.
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