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Post by dcsmmi on Feb 6, 2007 21:41:02 GMT -5
Here in Douglas Co we have a pellet mill that mixes different feeds and sells at bulk pricing. The grain our rescue mostly uses is a pelleted complete feed - about 15% fiber and 12 - 13% protein. I add supplements as needed for thin horses, hard keepers, young horses with higher protein needs etc. (aka - whatever has been donated recently - horses & supplements!) This complete feed is just over $5 for 50 lbs. (In another post I said $4 - it's gone up.  ) Today we discussed his ability to mix an Equine Senior blend. I gave him labels, ingredients and samples of Lyons Senior and Purina Equine Senior. He's going to give it a shot. He's able to buy vitamin "packages" that he can add - that will bind together with the molasses. I pointed out the vitamin E, A & D - etc. I'd like to tell him what owners feel is important in their senior feed. What percentages/levels do you feel make your senior feed the best? How do you feel about molasses content? And last - if you could pay less than $10 a bag for a comparable senior feed - how far would you drive to get it??? (note - I think he would deliver to Lane Co. ) |
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Post by pnp4kidz on Feb 6, 2007 22:03:27 GMT -5
Hi,
I'm not up there, I'm in N. CA... but...
I rescue and rehab oldsters...
and my thoughts on senior feed stem to the fact that like 'old people', hte 'old horses' can and do get more insulin resistant with age... and can become like adult onset diabetics...
they lose weight even tho it seems they get more than enough to eat...
this is because they can't utilize 'sugars' for energy and must use their muscles and fat stores.
what horses have as a HUGE advantage to humans is the ability to use FIBER as energy!!!
they 'ferment' in the hindgut... you and I get 'regular' from fiber... as it is not digestable to us.... but horses use fiber as FUEL!!! and the AWSOME news is that this fermentation fuel does not require insulin to be used, so even the most debilitated horse can use ALL of it very efficiently!!! as a matter of fact it appears that horses are 'made' to use this high fiber, low sugar, moderate protein and VERY low fat diet all along.... it is nature's horse diet.
so, that all said...
I'd say that a senior feed should be HIGH in fiber...
moderate in protein, low in fat...
and SUPER low in sugar and starch (less than 10% Non Structural Carbs)
they need supplimental Selenium in the PNW, and Vitamin E in hefty doses.
making the pellet with a 'fiber' like clean/non-molassed beet pulp or almond hulls is a great choice, or useing a low sugar hay for a base... forage hay/grass...
I'd leave OUT glucosamine as it can raise the blood sugar and insulin...
oh, and btw... I order pelleted feed from Washington, Sterett Brothers Hay and feed...
which is specially made for low NSC... with a mineral made to balance it...
and we pay a huge amount to ship it all the way down here to N. CA...
so, YES.. I'd be willing to pay!!!
this shipment is costing us $13.50 per bag for the hay pellets, plus $40 for the minerals to match 40 bags (a pallet) and we have to order by the pallet... :-)
there IS a market out there...
a BIG market....
oh, the other thing to mention to him...
our local-ish pellet mill delivers in bags, but also in Barrels!!! They get used olive or pickle barrels, and use them to deliver 250 lb amounts... it is GREAT!!! We use them, the cost is lower than bags, and they can reuse the barrels. WE pay a deposit of $15 per barrel, and they come deliver them, and pick up the empties... the screw on lids keep pests out, and we love the whole deal... :-) just fyi.
Beth
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Post by dcsmmi on Feb 6, 2007 22:52:27 GMT -5
That is EXACTLY what I'm looking for - thank you!!!
I had no idea about the glucosamine - so are you saying glucosamine would not be a good idea for a heavy horse - maybe prone to founder? Glucose = sugar - so it would make sense? I just hadn't thought of it. Those Majesty's Flex wafers are so popular - (as is all glucosamine supplements for older horses)....
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NanciK
Super Pooper Scooper
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Post by NanciK on Feb 7, 2007 0:16:24 GMT -5
My teenage OTTB had been on Purina Equine Senior for 3 years, and my Vet recently switched him to TDI Senior - lower in sugar than Purina - and can be fed in greater quantity (to keep weight on) without elevating sugar levels.
In the SF Bay Area, TDI Senior sells for about $15/bag, about 20% less that Purina Equine Senior.
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Post by dcsmmi on Feb 7, 2007 0:21:28 GMT -5
wow - Purina Senior is $16 here in So Oregon. Lyons Senior is $13 something!
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Post by pnp4kidz on Feb 7, 2007 0:36:48 GMT -5
Yes, I stay away from the glucosamine...
it can (not always ... but can) worsen IR/increase glucose/insulin levels.
stick with HA or MSM...
the new HA only supps seem to work really well...
Purina Senior, btw, is about 35-40% sugar plus starch... OUCH!!!
I'll have to look on 'the list' for the TDI...
don't know that one off the top of my empty head...
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Post by Tate on Feb 7, 2007 0:41:21 GMT -5
Now I'm worried, per my Vet I give Ginger 10,000 mg of glucosamane daily....
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Post by dcsmmi on Feb 7, 2007 0:50:40 GMT -5
HA? I'm tired I think... What is that? I believe that about purina - it's sticky! What about Lyons - do you know? It seems to have less molasses.
Why can't they put sugars/starches on the label? Or am I just not looking for the right thing??
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