What do you think?

[michellep]

My husbands horse is just "slightly" lame in the right hind leg in the pastern area. At least thats where he is showing signs of being ouchy. I cant feel any heat, see any swelling, or obvious signs of cuts/abrasions that I can find, I dont see any punctures in his hoof either. He seems fine at the walk, but just slightly off at the trot. During the dry times, he doesnt seem as bad, but when it rains like it has been the last few days is when I really notice him favoring it more. I was out again last night in the pouring down rain checking him for things I had missed. Im wondering if this isnt a flare up of arthritis in the joint and if so what are some good arthritis suppliments to give. He is about 20 yrs old so want to make him as comfortable as he can be before, during and after rides. Thoughts & suggestions needed.

[cutiepiepmu]

Michelle - there are a few things you can do - i first suggest having the leg xrayed just to rule out fracture or soemthing serious. If it is just arthritis - then I am going to recommend a diet that contains NO alfalfa at all - no alfalfa pellets, no alalfa hay, no snacks that have alfalfa in them, and no pelleted feeds containing alfalfa.

For some horses - alfalfa can stimulate the inflamatory response causing arthritis to be worse.

THEN - as far as the rest of the diet - as low suga/starch aspossible - so avoid senior feeds high in molasses (dels senior, equine senior, nutrena senior and others) Instead choose grass hay pellets and supplement with low starch feeds such as beet pulp, LMF low carb options, ect.

As far as daily supplements -

MSM - plain msm - start off with 3 tablespoons (30grams) daily for 2 weeks then go to 2 tablespoons daily.

BL Solution - get the liquid - works better than the pellets. This is an herbal pai reliever and can be given daily (whichh is best) and boosted during times of discomfort.

Complete joint products - There are alot out there - I have a few I find work better than others. NEXT LEVEL liquid is one of the best. Give 60cc's daily for 30 days, then 30 cc's daily after. Cosequin ASU - outstanding product, but pricey. Those two are about the best on the market - THEN I like ANIFLEX GL - it is fairly inexpensive but has alot for the money. Give 4 rounded tablespoon scoops daily for 30 days, then 2 rounded tablespoons there after. (this is not the directions, but works better this way)

The other product that will work well when paired with the above products is Cetyl M. I don't like Cetyl M used by itself, but when used with a good combination product it works well.

Hope that this helps.
Sara

[beckybee]

My Web has been on and off lame since I got him. I can't tell if it's right front or left hind. 3 times now he has gone *really* lame on the left hind. He'll walk on his tip toe, almost knuckled over, for a couple days then go back to "normal." He also frequently has a significant head bob at the trot.

Unfortunately he is mostly okay when I haul him into the vet and he usually trots reasonably sound on pavement, so the vet keeps saying he's fine. They have a new vet in the office and I had her out to do a lameness exam. (I wasn't hauling him back in to have the vets tell me yet again that he's fine and that he's too "unhandlable" for flexion tests and nerve blocks anyway. Maybe it would help if the vet didn't kick him.)

So turns out it's both right front and left hind. Vet said a significant head bob is usually a front leg, although I was insisting on LH. She did the first (low) nerve block on RF and the head bob went away.

Then she did flexion on LH. He actually trotted off fine with the low flexion (pastern/fetlock) so that's apparently okay. She moved up to the higher flexion (hock/stifle/etc), and he trotted off tippy toe. At least I know where he's lame now. And he's not being a brat because it actually *does* hurt him when the farriers hike up that back leg.

I have to take him in so they can do xrays, us, etc. to try to pinpoint the problem area to see what the prognosis and treatment may be.

So long story short: I would have sworn Web's lameness was pastern/fetlock, but it is actually in one of the higher joints. I would recommend you take your boy in to the vet for an evaluation. Even if it's not treatable, at least knowing what/where will help you.

[pnp4kidz]

Can I jump into this discussion?
I got a new boy, a huge (1300+ lb QH) who is sore on the front end when he has done some hard turns (roll backs),
but then walks off ok...
however... he is sore when ridden... but I can't tell where...
and he is really resistant when ridden, and I don't know why.
he actually crow hopped when asked to canter under saddle...
the ground was hard and pretty rocky... so I think that set him off...

I am 'thinking' he has low ringbone, from the history when I got him...
however then he is sore on gravel or small pebbles on my driveway, he also hesitates to go down or up my driveway, steep hill.

He is totally sound, not a single lameness when loose in my sand arena.

but when my daughter got on yesterday, he just shook his head when asked to trot.
she got off, asked for trot on lunge, and he was fine, back on, refused.
he also refuses to back up without a little fit,
he bends and gives at the poll very lightly, but no movement.
when you give a teeny kick, he kind of rears up, then gives you a step or two.

Now.... this horse is only 8, and he was a roping horse last year!
he HAS to have had a 'reverse'!

so, I put him on supps, and I got the list of stuff suggested at high doses... and went shopping. ended up with that one Sara suggested, the AniFlex, which has good doses of Glucosamine, Chondroiten, MSM and HA.
I give him 4 Tablespoons each day.
he is on grass hay...
and I give 30 cc of the Buteless stuff a day too.

I am wondering what his lameness IS... argh...
vet is coming next friday to do xrays, he doesn't LOOK like he has huge fetlock joints... or pastern joints... only right front is warm...
xrays will help.

Do I need to add any more in the suppliments?

[beckybee]

Yeah, vet asked how hard Web has been ridden. Umm... never? She was surprised to hear he'd never even had a saddle on him. (Well, I've set one on him and cinched on a bareback pad the other day.) And he's only like 6 years old. She's thinking OCD or DSLD.

It's tough when you are trying to figure one out - is the resistance just to test you (which you want to push through), or is it pain (which you have to respect). I've felt something was wrong with Web, but the vet kept saying "it's in his head - he just needs to be pushed through."

Good luck, Beth! Have you tried lunging with a rider just as a passenger and commands coming from the ground?

[pnp4kidz]

Oh, that is a great idea... he seems great to lunge, however he is very 'animated' and ready to move on out... like someone has been really after him to react FAST...
so we are working on slow but smooth transitions, and a 'new idea'... downward transitions! LOL... they taught him a great BIG stop! but... not so much 'easy' and just down a notch....
:-) he's smart tho... and getting it.

I'll put a line on him tonight and see how he goes. GREAT idea,
thanks!

[wendyp]

Hi Beth,

I just wanted to share my experience with Doodle, and maybe it will help with your boy...........

I sent Doodle to a trainer for 30 days (this was 2 years ago) and right before he left, I noticed an elongated 'lump' on his back. Not real big, but obviously not 'right'. Being an idiot, I sent him anyway. He survived the 30 days, but I *know* now that it was very hard on him. The lump did not go away, and he came back very thin.

This started my search for what was wrong. I tried supps, chiro, dmso, bute - didn't matter, the lump wouldn't go away. When I tried to ride Doodle, he would stand perfectly still, and stomp his hind leg, and refuse to move. Last fall, I ran across a guy named Bill (he lives in Bend, lucky Doodle!)- he is known as the 'Hands On The Horse Guy'. and that is actually his website www.handsonthehorseguy.com . I can't really explain what he does, but it works! He has some electro magnetic thing that makes the horses twitch, but I guess what it does is go deep into the tissues and break up old scar tissues, or something - come on, help me out here Beth, you have the medical background, I'm just a Loan Officer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, after two treatments, the lump is almost gone. It went down dramatically the day after the first treatment. I realize your boy doesn't have anything so obvious, but I can't help but think that something like this - that treats the whole body - might help because you don't have to know exactly what is wrong.........

I do know that Bill travels to CA and follows some of the big QH circuits - the big trainers have him come work on the horses daily while they are showing. I don't know if he comes down far enough to treat your boy, but maybe he knows of someone in your area?

The change in Doodle was absolutely amazing..............I hope to have him work on Lotti next month.

WendyP/Bend, OR

[pnp4kidz]

Hmmmm, interesting!
similar kind of response... the standing still.... and a little 'fit' when you ask for more... stomping the feet.
I'd say the guy is doing a little electical stim... it stimulates the nerves and twitches the muscles... maybe he is thinking Doodle has a trigger point?

I have a great body work woman, Perfect Equine, Sandy Neal, and I put a call in to her. She is my magician... at very least she is awesome at telling me 'where it hurts him' and what is there that can cause it. She is not at all over confident in her abilities but honestly, when doesn't it feel awsome to have a full body 1 hour Shiatzu massage? followed by a nice chiro??? :-) that is her thing... head to toe.
I'm gonna see what she says! You guys are great... I'll let you know!

[mkgbuegel]

Hey Beth, I would bet money that the issue your guy is having is generated from something much higher up in his body than the hoof. Sounds like somethings not right in the spine, hip or rib area, could even be a combo of several bones that are now, nqr. , esp. if his previous job was a roper. Something as simple as a rib out, can make a horse a bit crazy and increasingly desperate to "get away" from the pain. I think the massage and chiro sounds great.

[pnp4kidz]

My gut tells me that even if one pastern has ring bone, that this response is not from THAT problem!
thanks for helping me focus on that... and move on to looking at the whole horse.
:-)