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Post by acarlson1980 on Aug 8, 2008 22:28:09 GMT -5
Hello all just wanted to let you all know that our rescue Angel is very sick right now. The vet says shes has colic. We need your prayers please. We made an emergency vet call last night. She was tubed and flushed with water and mineral oil and electroyles. The vet thought that would do the trick but it hasn't. The vet was called out again this afternoon and was treated once again. She is on benamine(sp?) which seems to make her feel just a little bit better for the time being. Once the meds wear off that is when she seems to get worse. She has pasted just a couple poops. But really hard. The vet is still very concerned that she has a huge blockage. So please let Angel be in your prayers tongiht and hope she pulls through this. Me and Jess have been up all night watching her. We will keep you updated as things go. Thank you very much Amber
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Post by swissgrl on Aug 8, 2008 22:55:29 GMT -5
Amber, sending lots of Jingles for Angel. Hope she feels better soon!
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Aug 9, 2008 0:59:24 GMT -5
This poor mare has been thru it all and it so not fair. She has soo many scars from her previous life and she has many new cuts from her constant lying down during her illness. Tonight she is a bit more perky and doesnt seem to be wanting to lay down as much but I am sure we have an all nighter ahead anyway just to make sure. I really want to sya thanks to Tash for ditching working and driving over an hour to hang with us and give much needed moral support. Although I will say I dont know how fair it is to laugh hysterically at a horses gassy bum after a rectal.SICKO LOL
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Post by patrolhorse on Aug 9, 2008 3:16:43 GMT -5
Boy.. I've been there ! Colic is such a scary thing- I will keep you ALL in my prayers tonight. She has finally landed in a soft spot where she can enjoy the good life- I hope she can pull through this and finally enjoy it. Thank you all for being there for her. We will be praying for the best.
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Post by jenm on Aug 9, 2008 10:56:43 GMT -5
Amber and Jess,
How is Angel this morning? I hope you had a quiet night and saw some good poop!
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Post by mtangel on Aug 9, 2008 12:08:24 GMT -5
Jingling like mad for Angel and her support system.
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Aug 9, 2008 12:35:03 GMT -5
Its so scary you guys! Thanks for your support. She is still not drinking at all. She did poop last night but it was still very firm. She is a lil bit more like herself so thats nice but this is one tough horse even the vet figures after all the horrors shes seen this colic is just the lesser of what shes been thru. Poor baby. I would love to sleeeeep
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Post by Admin on Aug 9, 2008 23:10:22 GMT -5
She is at the barn and Dr. Emig is treating her now. She does have a block so is being sedated and banamine to be comfortable. We are keeping her hydrated at one end and oiled at the other. I'll keep you posted, I'll be checking on her through the night.
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Post by wendyp on Aug 10, 2008 12:56:03 GMT -5
I noticed that she was tubed with mineral oil and electrolytes - I lost a mare to sand colic a little over a year ago, and they had tubed the same way. I read online (so take it or leave it) that metamucil (fiber) should be used for a sand colic because it will help carry the sand out - oil doesn't do much for a sand colic...................Just a suggestion. They add it to the water, stir it up, and tube it. It could make a difference.
It probably wouldn't have helped my mare, but who knows. She was actually pooping hard sand turds on the third day..............ended up septic and had to put her down. We had used metmucil on her previous colics, and had used it the first day of her last colic, but didn't continue with it..............
Just a thought........
WendyP/Bend, OR
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Post by earlybp on Aug 10, 2008 13:26:51 GMT -5
Poor Angel! I'm keeping her in my thoughts and prayers. Hope she starts drinking soon.
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Post by Tate on Aug 10, 2008 13:28:27 GMT -5
Jingles for Angel.
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Aug 10, 2008 13:48:05 GMT -5
She has been sand cleared as soon as she got to my place just to be on the safe side and she has only been fed from a bucket since then so I hope thats not it. Amber Tash and I left the barn in the wee morning hours with no new poop. She looked comfortable and was not laying down and actually drank some water but still no poo. I am waiting to hear from the a.m. crew to hear what they say. Shes really scaring me
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Post by Tockita on Aug 10, 2008 14:43:42 GMT -5
I've been checking back in.. Angi lost Charity to sand. She was clearing her and was colicy for a week.. then seemed to be doing better. She had her best day but then was septic the next morning.
Sounds like you have tried to keep her from getting more sand. Here there are a lot of horses with stones too.
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Post by acarlson1980 on Aug 10, 2008 19:11:16 GMT -5
report from the am crew is that she did poop a little bit. still not good thou. we hope its not from sand. i know that she has been sand cleared a lot. we have had her system flushed now 3 times. things seem to be getting a little bit softer inside from every vet visit. so we will all keep you posted. thank you all for your support. this gal is very dear to me. she had come way to long to end this way. so lets keep praying.
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Post by Admin on Aug 10, 2008 19:38:53 GMT -5
I think she is doing a little better. She is hydrated, good gum color and we have gut sound bilateral and bottom now. She is being fed small meals several times a day. Her hay is being broken into small pieces and soaked. She's gobbling it up. We have had poo though out the day also. She is comfortable and still on banamine.
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Post by wendyp on Aug 10, 2008 19:58:38 GMT -5
Not to dwell on the negative, but I just want everyone to know that the mare that I talked about above had also been on sand clear for two weeks the previous month (if I remember its 7 days a month they are supposed to be on it, but we were going to Mexico and I didn't want her to have any chance of having an episode, so I kept her on it longer) she was also fed out of a 100 gallon tub (since she had colic'd two other times, I switched to tubs the year before), and yet she still had so much sand it was incredible. And it doesn't have to be 'sand' it is really dirt. The first time she colic'd she had not been anywhere near 'sand' for two years.
So, sometimes, even if we do everythings right, things can still go wrong...........I sincerely hope Angel is feeling better.
WendyP/Bend, OR
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Aug 11, 2008 0:23:17 GMT -5
It would make sense really, seeing as she was obviously not used to getting regular meals and she would have been searching for anything
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Post by Admin on Aug 11, 2008 2:32:40 GMT -5
We have already ruled out sand. Vet and I checked on her earlier again and she was doing well. Amber was staying with her. ( THANK YOU ).
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 11, 2008 7:53:17 GMT -5
Can I make a quick recommend to go ahead and dose this kid VERY high on probiotics for the next 30 days. 3 LARGE scoops of probios granules 2-3 times daily. After the gut has had this kind of trauma it really tweeks the internal flora and can end up causing secondary issues. The probiotics can really help her tummy get back on track and are a cheap thing to do! Initially I would give a FULL tube of gel to get started then start on the powder. Also - if you are needing to get more liquid into this kid - try some beet pulp that is soaked and slightly soupy. I am sure the vet has recommended a routine - but any time you have an impaction issue - getting water to the gut is HUGE. Even a few cups of soaked beet pulp a day for a week can help Hope this kid is back on track soon!!! Let me know if you need some help figuring out a plan - I have a little lighter week this week and will be over that direction! Sara
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Post by Admin on Aug 11, 2008 11:17:54 GMT -5
Probiotics
Horse owners are intent on keeping their horses' gut flora happy, and one strategy that has received much acclaim is feeding probiotic supplements. Probiotics are live organisms intended to promote the viability and health of the intestinal microflora to improve digestive efficiency.
Scott Weese, DVM, DVSc, Dipl. ACVIM, an associate professor at the University of Guelph's Ontario Veterinary College in Canada, has devoted considerable effort to researching probiotic use in horses. His findings are noteworthy when one evaluates the cost-benefit of feeding these as dietary supplements. Weese suggests, "Probiotic therapy makes the most sense to use in horses with diarrhea and perhaps those undergoing antimicrobial therapy, but there is no objective evidence yet that supports results."
In addition, he summarizes, "There are currently no studies indicating a positive effect of probiotics in any situation in horses."
Many of you are might be rearing back in disbelief, but let's look at some of the pertinent reasons why Weese has cause for concern.
He explains that because probiotics are considered food supplements and not drugs, there is no regulatory control over their manufacturing, quality, efficacy, or label claims. Basically, anyone can produce a product and market it with all manners of claims that it will cure all ills. Yet, without product regulation, there is no guarantee that any of these claims are true. Weese elaborates, "Commercial probiotics are concerning because there is no requirement to perform proper in vitro or in vivo (on equine tissue samples in a laboratory or in the live horse) testing. A large number of probiotics are available commercially, and have been for years, yet none of them have demonstrated a positive effect through a proper trial. Marketing of these products is riddled with numerous unsubstantiated anecdotes, or Internet publications of fictitious 'research,' along with illegal label claims. As nutritional supplements, probiotic labels cannot make a claim of health benefits, yet this is often the case on product labels or in ads. It is also surprising how often labeling is incorrect, including misspelling of names of organisms."
One point of interest about probiotics is whether they are even able to bypass digestive juices in the stomach and small intestine and make it to the large intestine in a usable form. And, once there, they must be able to colonize the bowel lining to exert favorable effects on the native gut flora. Weese notes that proper selection of live culture strains given at appropriate doses might overcome this concern. One problem, however, is that very little is known about the numbers of organisms necessary to inoculate the large intestine of the horse to achieve the desired end. Doses suggested are simply based on conjecture, with no substantiation from clinical trials. Each probiotic organism must be tested to determine its dose and efficacy.
Weese explains, "Probiotic strains need to be tolerant to acid and bile, and these properties are quite variable. One Lactobacillus acidophilus might be very tolerant, while another poorly so. (Lactobacillus bacteria are literally "milk bacteria" and are normally found in the digestive tract.) This is why specific testing of the specific probiotic strain in the target animal species is required, although this is rarely performed. We evaluated this with L. rhamnosus GG. Survival of passage through the gastrointestinal tract was moderate; with large enough doses, we could recover the organism from feces. We also showed that an equine origin L. pentosus had good survival properties, however this organism caused diarrhea in a randomized, placebo-controlled, blinded clinical trial. This indicated that specific safety and efficacy testing is required--a procedure that is not done for commercial probiotics."
In his research, Weese also discovered that there was little to no compliance with standard industry requirements for labeling claims. A label should accurately identify the contents in the packaging, specifically how many and what strains of organisms are present, with a guarantee that each product will provide this concentration of active organisms up until the expiration date. He found no probiotic product that provided all this information.
Pagan recognizes the same problems defined by Weese. He comments, "A probiotic should be comprised of species that normally inhabit the gut, and I'm not sure that any commercial probiotics do. Although yeasts are not strictly considered 'probiotics,' we have done research that shows improvements in fiber digestion when we add live yeast. There is another class of substances called 'prebiotics,' which probably have greater potential to affect gut health. Prebiotics are foods for the bacteria that already inhabit the gut. We have recently developed a fermentable fiber substitute that contains these types of substances, which we believe will be useful for horses with compromised digestive function."
So, in summary, although probiotics sound good in theory, there is still a long way to go to establish quality control and assurance of efficacy for any of these commercial products. In addition, research is still ongoing as to how these might work to the benefit of a horse's digestive health.
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 11, 2008 15:00:59 GMT -5
ohhhh game on lol. i will post some articles that say the opposite lolol!! Sara
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 11, 2008 15:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 11, 2008 15:37:33 GMT -5
On my other computer I have saved several great research links that are outstanding - although, for the general user may be a tough read. Lots of medical lingo and whatnot. BUT - The nice thing about probiotics - They are one of the FEW things that won't hurt your horse if dosed high I personally have seen such amazing results feeding daily probiotics to most all horses that I don't go a day without it in my feed pans OR in my own vitamins Sara
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Post by Admin on Aug 11, 2008 21:23:12 GMT -5
We do use probios especially when a horse is on antibiotics. Vet feels it can be constipating if given DURING colic.
The horse world: There are 20 different right things and ways to do things:) hehe
Vet was back out this morning to hydrate both ends:) She is not going down or rolling. Is active so we are hoping we're at the end of this. We hope.
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Post by TashGaia on Aug 11, 2008 23:32:49 GMT -5
Here is a photo of Angel taken on Saturday, in case anyone is having trouble visualizing her. She has been colicing since Thursday. She has basically only had one small poop each day... none so far today. She went down and was rolling on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and on Sunday. Each time she was gotten back up right away. I didn't see her go down or roll today, but I was only there for 5 hours instead of the 10+ for the previous days, and she has been alone most of the day. She really needs jingles, prayers, good-wishes, whatever. This is day 5 going on day 6.
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 12, 2008 1:51:22 GMT -5
How old is angel again? Is it possible to do a digital x-ray of the abdomen on both sides??? Some vets carry the high powered units - although some don't and have just regular digital. Discussing this kid with a vet I work along side in oregon he pointed out that ongoing issues like this can point towards a fatty lipoma possibly causing pressure or torsion on the intestinal tract - causing a "blockage - like" issue. Doing a high power digital x-ray may show it(may not - but it is a painless thing to do) i have only personally seen 1 horse with this type of situation and by the time it was discovered the fatty area had torn loose and the end wrapped around the tract causing the need for emergency surgery to save the horse. Anyways - the likelyhood is small - but figured I would throw it out there for you. Sara
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Post by TashGaia on Aug 12, 2008 1:55:28 GMT -5
15
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Post by patrolhorse on Aug 12, 2008 4:05:06 GMT -5
We are praying and keeping you all in our thoughts. What a tough week.
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Post by lorsadoon on Aug 12, 2008 9:12:36 GMT -5
Since I have seen the picture of Angel, I see that she is grey. Have you considered the possibility of an internal melanoma or tumor. Has she ever had any melanomas? Most greys get them and research states that almost all greys will develope at least one by the time they are 16 years old.
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Post by beckybee on Aug 12, 2008 10:49:56 GMT -5
Well, everyone is throwing in their $0.02, so I will to!
Gelding at the place I used to board at (owner's horse) was "colicking" for weeks. Everyday, he would start sweating, pacing, rolling, not eating, obvious distress. She would give him banamine, but as soon as it wore off, he would be sick again. She finally took him to Davis for xrays and endoscope.
Xrays showed some sand - not blockage and high in the abdomen (which apparently meant is was moving through the system. No other blockage. When they scoped him - he was full of ulcers!
He would colic everytime she came out to feed - the anticipation of eating would cause his stomach to start releasing acid. No food in his stomach and the acid would irritate his ulcers, he would be in pain, couldn't eat, and the acid would just sit there eating at his stomach lining. Vicious cycle. It was odd, because he was on grass so it's not like he was starving between feedings.
Vet put him on gastrogard and then suggested apple cider vinegar with his grain everyday. Last I heard, he was doing well.
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