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Post by gsdmom on Apr 4, 2008 20:12:36 GMT -5
I have wondered for many months just what was going on. When Sarah and I brought Forever home, she was very badly injured in one eye and very thin after being in QT at Sam's. (+5 weeks) We were not able to pick her up when she was ready to go home so we paid for an extra week. Sam would have liked to have charged for QT, but we knew that it had already been paid once. Just my opinion, but I don't think she was fed enough while she was there. (In the week Sarah had her she was already putting on weight.) Sarah works for a vet. His opinion was that the eye was not treated. We have vet bills from when she was supposedly seen by the vet up there and was going to be just fine. I also read the ABR board several times a day. I know these questions have all been asked, but there are several horses that are "missing." (Shot or back to the feedlot???) Heide is right. There are rescues in all states that we can help out. Everyone knows there is no shortage of horses right now. This is a great group of people here. Lesson learned be sure and ask questions before you donate.
Kathy
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Post by bcfilly on Apr 4, 2008 20:58:50 GMT -5
WOW is really all I can say..... I usually try and keep out of these things but with so many negative posts coming in from various people that have worked closely with or dealt with cber before I'm kinda p*ssed. (p#ssed at cber that is) It's one thing to make a royal mess of things it's another to not try and clean it up properly and with Sam claiming that cber wants nothing to do with the RO board I think that speaks volumes. Truth be told though I was disturbed from the start by the post that had been made re Sam stating that horses would be put down if someone didn't come to cber's rescue. I'm sorry but if you're in the business of saving horses for the right reason's you just don't do that. I agree that the $$$ that has been spent was not spent in vain and alot of horses have been saved..... it's just time to save elsewhere than through cber.
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Post by dancinwithhorses on Apr 4, 2008 21:17:48 GMT -5
Halfwayhome and Atticus have said it all. I was behind the scenes for awhile and got dumped on by Sam. I have grave concerns with what Sam does and how she gets her bills paid. I now research much more carefully where my money goes (although right now I'm broke ). I feel for these horses. You can make a difference with in your own area not only by rescuing but modeling quality horse care/training and responsibility. Hopefully I will be able to rescue horses again......
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Post by lorsadoon on Apr 4, 2008 21:22:31 GMT -5
I also want to thank Heidi and Ashley for their honesty.
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Post by beejoyfulmk on Apr 4, 2008 21:34:01 GMT -5
WOW as I have adopted 11 horses and come to love and respect CBER and Sam this is sad for me, Im hoping this work it self out.
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Post by Maverick~Zora on Apr 4, 2008 21:34:59 GMT -5
Well all I can say, not that it matters, but I am really hurt by Sam's reply!
I can only concluded that Sam does not care for anyone asking her any questions about her operation.
Speaking only on the money side, SOS has done a great job at posting there monthly financial report, there for no questions about SOS's finances need to be asked.
Much thanks to all the gals at SOS for keeping on top of the money side of things!
I have heard so many stories, so many rumors and I have watched so many CBER witch hunts over the years.
I have always kept an open mind about all of it, perhaps it's time to close my mind & turn away.
Or maybe it's just time for me to quit this all together.
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Post by countrygirl on Apr 4, 2008 21:46:32 GMT -5
I am really surprised that Sam would be so bold as to "give the finger" to those who "butter her bread". She certainly seems to lack sight of the big picture.
I have been a supporter since before CBER had a board. I have rescued 7 horses from the lot over the years and was very happy to do so. I have always felt that things weren't quite right - especially when it comes to $$$ but I have been willing to overlook it for the sake of the horses. It is unfortunate the Sam doesn't see that working WITH her supportors would be the best way to help the horses. It speaks volumes and confirms my suspicions. I have to say, I am not surprised.
There are a lot of other, non financial, concerns that I have had about CBER over the years as well. I am sure that if we all knew the REAL truth, we would be stunned.
Very Sad. I feel bad for the horses.
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Post by greysquirrel on Apr 4, 2008 21:46:55 GMT -5
This is just unbelievable. Reading all this makes me sick to my stomach. I now have to wonder what other horror stories about CBER are true. I thought $am was in it for the horses. Apparently not. I wonder what will happen if this information gets back to the IRS. What she is doing under the guise of a 501(c) (3) can't be legal.
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Post by lorsadoon on Apr 4, 2008 21:52:04 GMT -5
Amy, if you decide to quit this altogether, then only the horses will suffer. Just direct your passion to someone who cares about their contributors. I know you have helped many horses. We need to just divert our energy to those who respect and appreciate us.
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Post by kidznhorses on Apr 4, 2008 21:54:06 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the horses are the ones who lose. It really makes me sad when I think of all the wonderful horses who have come off Chuck's feedlot. Heidi is right though. There are so many out there who need saved. Especially the way our economy is now. We can all help by going to auctions, stopping and asking people about their thin, obviously neglected horses. Perhaps they're willing to sell for a small fee. Donate to legitimate rescues by purchasing a ton of hay. This is all very distressing.
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Post by icehorse on Apr 4, 2008 21:55:13 GMT -5
biting the hand:(
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Post by barbpurple on Apr 4, 2008 21:58:17 GMT -5
ok i am finally gonna post here.. as i just have been reading and thinking aloud here...nope gonna bite my hands also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2008 22:18:56 GMT -5
This board has never been just a CBER Board. We were fortunate to save MANY horses through them. I have never kept track of the money I have personally donated for bail or adoptions it was more important to save a life.
I am very Sad things have taken the turn they have. I have been adopting and supporting CBER since they started.
All CBER listings will be archived in "General" but the post will stay. There are so many of us here who really love to hear about the horses and I sincerely hope you keep posting.
I just really have been dealt a blow here and there will be more information regarding CBER to come.
I do THANK ALL of you who have been so deeply concerned and help to save so many of our equine friends. I thank you.
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Post by chatty on Apr 4, 2008 22:19:46 GMT -5
There are many loving, kind, caring, responsible horse people on this forum, you have put forth money, time, tears and smiles in representing the horses who cannot speak for themselves. You look into the eyes of your own horses and the feedlot horses and auction horses and abandoned horses and made a difference for them. As someone who decided to go their own way and help horses in my own way, you have to know that you can make a difference within your own sphere. RO knows now they are not just about CBER, but you can be about HORSES everywhere. As Chatty says, rescue the horses in other ways, as Atticus says, look into who you give your money and time to very very carefully. If CBER wants to do it their way without your help, without communication and basic courtesy, then leave them to it, there are sooooo many needy horses out there and believe me they WILL appreciate you. I love your loyalty and your empathy, but now your eyes have been opened and it hurts. I thank each of you who sacrificed to save a horse, you made a difference to THAT horse. :'(God Bless You .....
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Post by Maverick~Zora on Apr 4, 2008 22:20:30 GMT -5
I am taking it in this order.
1, The money thing: I joined up in late 05, this one question has come up over & over again. At this point I have lost count. IMO it has never been adequately answered.
2, RO & CBER supporters: If CBER & Sam wish to dump us that's there/her call. However I do believe it was done in a very rude way when one considers how long many of us have done our best to support CBER & Sam's mission. PEC, I am so very sorry for the horses, but I fully support your decision to post no new CBER listings.
Amy
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Post by jenm on Apr 4, 2008 22:42:44 GMT -5
T I don't even know anything about a CBER Board. Does anyone here know if one even exists? It does exist, but may only be by invitation only. I know that some people have received PMs to join the new board. I have not, so I no nothing more about it.
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Post by tinkerslady on Apr 4, 2008 22:44:01 GMT -5
It used to be she wasn't a non-profit and we all did it for the horses. It is too bad those days are over...
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Post by fivemile on Apr 4, 2008 22:52:10 GMT -5
To those of you who have chosen to not do any adoptions through CBER (which I don't blame you , I myself will not) please remember that you can go directly to the feedlot and buy them from Chuck . They are much less than getting them from CBER (although keep in mind you would want to keep them seperate from your own horses for awhile) There is also SOS which is a wonderful, upfront rescue. I had a very good experience in dealing with Shawna and she was totally honest. The horses are the ones who will suffer if we give up . Please just know that you can still buy them directly from Chuck. I am sad this has all happened but I can't say I'm surprised. I hope we can still all find a way to help those who are the real vicitims in this ugly situation, the horses.
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Post by jenm on Apr 4, 2008 23:21:33 GMT -5
fivemile,
You are right. It always has been and always will be about the horses. Let us not forget that.
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Apr 4, 2008 23:39:28 GMT -5
Ok so I would like to point out a couple things here. My main concern is that the ro board members take a look at the people who are stepping back from CBER. We are people who have CBER horses and are grateful, we are people that have worked for CBER in one way or another, we are people who are most definetly in it for the horses and many of us are your friends. Please take a look at our statements and realize there must be more forthcoming. We are not and have never been people who bash or attempt to hurt the horses. We are people who have been in the trenches with u battling the d**n kb at all hours of the night. We have shared our improvements or faults and of course our horses. Do u really think we are people who would be doing this if there wasnt a reason? Seriously I love you all and dont want to lose you as my friends. Alll I ask is to think about what you know of us and form your own opinions
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Post by piopico on Apr 4, 2008 23:40:40 GMT -5
Sad to see this........but maybe it will be beneficial in an odd way......those of us, hundreds of miles from Washington, may now take the initiative to visit our LOCAL auctions and 'buy direct'.
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Post by fivemile on Apr 4, 2008 23:50:31 GMT -5
Yes, if you look horses that need help are everywhere!! Craigslist, auctions, animal control seizures, etc. Please don't let this ugliness keep you from helping a horse out of a horrible fate. My family and I have gotten horses from a variety of places that would have ended up slaughtered. Places you may not think to look. I assure you your local auction has several sad souls awaiting an angel! I have two in my pasture right now that have turned out to be fabulous trail horses for any type rider. I am sickened over all this and just hope and pray that horses needing help will still get it. I don't know what will happen to the horses on Chucks lot now and it worries me very much. As we all know there are many many great horses that have come from that lot.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 5, 2008 0:16:55 GMT -5
Yeah I am saddened Tock, but more because I did NOT know that Sam was living off of CBER... I was told she was the president of the board, and her parents supported her... and the QT until today was said to be due to concerns for spreading disease, and was put that way because of what the state Vet told her to do, NOT because Sam needed income! those are the little white lies, to the tune of 9K per month, that have me so upset.
I am upset because when I donate to a non profit, I expect that the amount of money OVER the cost will go back into the mission... and that any extra might be put into salaries, but those will be declared! why do you think people would be ok with Sam getting all that QT that was REQUIRED if they were unhappy when she was getting a salary? Why is it ok that I have to work full time to afford to do my rescue, but it's so lilly white that she doesn't have to work?
and no one is upset that I pay for all of the horses I have adopted... why is it such a crime for Sam to use some of the 'profit' of CBER to support the horses who were 'abandoned' who were actually picked up late due to a horrible snow storm but there were pages and pages of accusations that it was a scam artist who was the transporter... did anyone appologise to that man? he was slandered over and over... by Sam and her boyfriend... or friend, or whatever, Jeff. who now disappeared.
I'm very sad... mostly because I know right now Chuck is geared up to make a quarter of a million in sales per year to CBER, so it will take him some time to drop back down... and more horses will go to him than Sam can sell... but I think eventually the flow will slow, Chuck won't buy more than he can sell, and his sales to slaughter from what Sam told me last summer have remained steady even with us rescuing... he just buys that many more. Sam has picked and chosen from the 'lot' horses for years as to who to list... there have always been many more who she sees and lets Chuck just ship.... the ones without faces... We will start seeing those extra horses elsewhere I guess... and I hope we can save them there.
It has been kicked around that we need to do a similar listing from the CA feedlots, so maybe this is the time to organize that.... we need to move forward, and make lemonaide from this bunch of squashed lemons...
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 5, 2008 0:59:50 GMT -5
I think the problem is that number one, the expense of buying the horses is 2/3 of the income, and the entire other 1/3 is taken up in Sam's personal expenses. The mission says they buy, board, vet, train, and THEN offer horses to the public.... the humane society has a large expenditure for education, caring for the dogs/cats, and euthanizing the ones who can't make it... they add a fee to the adoptions to pay for that... and there is a bit of budget left after the necessary mission projects to afford the salary of the president. Her rent, utilities, food, car payment and gas, etc. don't show up on the tax forms for the animal shelter.... they are on her personal income tax.
In general tho, small non profits are run by volunteers. you can deduct expenses. but it is illegal to profit from the offshoots of the non profit personally.
I hope we can organize to do direct rescues from this... we are a great group, I've made great friends here... and I know there are awesome people who want to do great things... the horses need us... we can do this!
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 5, 2008 4:04:13 GMT -5
just a thought here - if people are still concerned about horses on the feedlot - can't someone buy direct from chuck? I know he sells horses off the lot to outside individuals- correct? You would obviously have to do it as an individual and make the trip over to look for yourself, but for wahtever horse you are interested in, my guess is that cash talks at the feedlot. Sara
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Post by chatty on Apr 5, 2008 8:45:07 GMT -5
Yes, cutiepiepmu.. We can go to Seal's feedlot (Chuck's) and walk the lot..Offer cash for any you like (cents per-lb or amount in dollors)...Don't ever say you saw them on CBER web... Many, many horses to see...You inter on the south end of the lot, new/uneval horses are there...Was told CBER horses were out back (north end), ask to see all the horses he's got for sale...
chatty
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Post by fivemile on Apr 5, 2008 9:55:25 GMT -5
Yes, you can buy any horse you'd like from Chuck. I have done it lots of time. Like it was mentioned above, never say you saw them on CBER. There are also lots of horses who don't even get listed that are adoptable.
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Post by vadnaisarabians on Apr 5, 2008 10:30:14 GMT -5
If any of you want to group together to start checking the feedlots in CA count me in. There is one about an hour north of me in Chino Hills.
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Post by mini mom on Apr 5, 2008 10:47:16 GMT -5
So what happens to Diva and Gemini? Do they ship now because of this. Jana
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Post by winehorse on Apr 5, 2008 10:51:35 GMT -5
My question also. Does anyone know what is going on with them and if they can still be saved?
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