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Post by lisam on Mar 13, 2008 9:49:22 GMT -5
Let's take Aida for example. rescuesonly.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=cber&action=display&thread=1205078749Hmm, she's an old girl, needs groceries, and her ad says she shouldn't be asked for much, so basically a pasture pet. At $350, maybe that could be handled. But wait--what's this? With added fees it comes to $700? And I just saw some horses heading to slaughter unless sold on Craigslist , and they were only $100 each.
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Post by michellep on Mar 13, 2008 10:27:15 GMT -5
I know that I am a greenhorn at this adopting, and if it werent for a special person I still wouldnt have been able to adopt when I did. But, I did my math (and trust me I am no whiz at math) but with the horses initial cost+QT+training=the same price or real close to the price of a horse bought from a private person. Yes, it cost me more to drive from Graham to Yakima twice to see my new horse, but I think that I have a good one and Im happy with my choice. Im glad that somebody with more knowledge in strangles and the appropriate setting was able to watch over my horse. Should there be the option, yes, but somehow there has to be a waiver that doesnt hold anyone responsible for bad consequenses. I dont think its the QT, that is the main factor in horses being lost. Look at our economy, the price of gas, groceries, hay, etc. I know for me personally, if there is anything left after bills, food for us, food for my animals and maybe an occaisional night out for my husband and me money is really tight. I dont have the extra $ to offer towards bail of these horses, and I would love to. I just think that there are alot of people looking and wanting a horse but no extra to give. And just my personal opinion on Aida, nobody knows what this horse is truly capable of until she is given the time to gain her weight and recover from being at the lot...Dont label her as not being able to give much, my 35yr old gelding was a fighter right up until the day he died. Yes he had arthritis, but he would still go. She might just surprise somebody given the chance at a new start. Ok, getting down off the soapbox now
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Post by rescuestoribbons on Mar 13, 2008 10:39:10 GMT -5
Ok, Is there anyway to lower QT a little? I know it is a LOT to ask of Sam, even if it involved sending any extra supplies that we have her way? Just a thought, not sure if it will work or anything just giving up ideas
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Post by sam on Mar 13, 2008 10:42:17 GMT -5
Unfortunately the bad have ruined it for the good. Horses have died from people not taking proper care of the illness. Illness has stopped being spread all over that state and that is a good thing.
I think there are many factors to why adoptions are low but really they are not low - 7 - 12 a week. QT has nothing to do with it. Anyway, from many, I am hearing that they are supporting too many lame and wild horses. That has to do with assessors not following CBER's mission statement. Those assessors are no longer part of CBER and CBER is gaining its reputation back as being a realistic rescue that sticks to its mission statement. It is no longer thought of as a rescue that is trying to save everything at top slaughter market price. Someone wants to save a Cushings horse great - go to the sale and get one for $50 why spend high killer prices? You want to save a wild one? Go to the sale and save a horse that runs through loose for $25 not the high killer price.
Hay and diesel prices are the BIGGEST FACTOR. People and unloading horses all over the place. It was reported to me that over 500 horses were set free on the res this winter. This number is much higher then in previous years. The TB racing market has crashed and we are seeing many more TB's come through. Gentle riding horse are always adopted but TB are tough and have always been tough to place. The high costs of feeding horses means that people are not able to afford to feed a horse they are not using. Hay prices are only going to get worse so those that can buy a lot at first cutting do so.
I live 60 miles round trip and I clock the mileage all the time. Not 15 minutes, lets get the facts correct.
I have 42 horses on my place not 50 again lets get the facts straight, not all are QT horses. 5 are CBER horses that I support. Last week 8 were CBER horses that I support. One of the 5 I currently have is Mr Magoo that your friend just dumped off because he is a kicker - well he has not kicked around us, he is happy kind fellow, that not once has lifted a leg to kick. He too has been wormed and is scheduled to have his teeth floated - hmmm, I wonder if the vet will float his teeth for free? Somehow I do not think so. RESCUE HORSES COST MONEY!
MY QT prices - if you are a back yard horse owner you can take care of your horses cheaper. I could cut corners charge less, use wire fencing, inadequate shelter, poor quality hay, not disinfect my tanks and leave them filled with dirty contaminated water, not have shavings so horses are standing knee deep in mud, and not worm or administer anti-biotics. That is not my idea of quality care and I will not be part of it.
Caring for sick horses on a large scale costs money, lots of money. I have an employee to pay, his employee taxes, hay to buy, anti-biotic, wormer, water disinfectant, shavings, chips, electric bills, farm equipment upkeep and repair, commercial insurance, facility upkeep, grain, hay pellets, regular taxes, the list goes on and on. Locally most boarding facilities charge more then $300 but do not deal with health issues or supply any services for free. I boarded at a facilty and I had to pay an extra $2 a day to get my horse turned out. $10 to have someone hold the horse for the farrier, $10 to hold the horse for the vet, meet the brand inspector $10, $10 per injection. What people are getting in QT facilities is full service at a regular board price.
It is funny the only people that B - - - - about QT are mainly on this board. People that have their horses in my care and well as Shawna's acre are very happy for the service and thank us daily. They even want more services and are willing to pay for it. They are getting a healthy horse and not spreading disease and are very appreciative of it. QT is a CBER policy and is not changing. With that said the issue is closed you can write all you want on this thread but it will not change the QT policy.
Thanks,
Sam
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Post by murphypoo on Mar 13, 2008 10:48:27 GMT -5
I'm glad Heidi brought this up. I DO believe the extra $300 detours people from adopting. One of the problems I have is that the ad states a price for the horse, only to read on and you find QT fee's that almost double the cost of an elderly horse. I have adopted two CBER horses from before QT was mandatory, and I do think it would have affected my decision. I can afford to pay it, but somehow it feels a bit like false advertising. Why isn't the QT price put in the original amount? Because it would scare people off right away. Give people the choice, after-all, you are trusting these people with owning the horse, they have to sign contracts, references are checked and so they, by CBER standards, should be able to care for the horse if they choose.
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Post by lucy1994 on Mar 13, 2008 10:59:08 GMT -5
There we go BEATING IT TO DEATH!!! I think Sam made her point VERY clear.
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Post by janet on Mar 13, 2008 11:09:32 GMT -5
I have to say, when I see a 20+ yr old horse with a $1000 sticker price, I get sticker shock. I know it gives me feeling of where to even start and how can we possibly save several horses with that kind of price. It's totally depressing to see it. So yes, money is a factor here. Hay, gas and boarding have all increased and some members who used to help a lot are becoming more and more strapped for money.
With the QT- I recall last year, CBER or Sam coming in a making a rule that Bail and or QT HAD to be paid by the adopter. Members COULD NOT raise the money for both but could help out with one or the other. Has this rule been overlooked- because time and time again money is being raised for both. Perhaps if QT is listed differently and when an adopter comes in they can ask for help in which ever area they need help. If they want private help, then PM people. Wendy, as far as you going and talking with Sam about this whole issue- isn't there a CBER board? Are the members of the board not allowed any kind of say or vote. I know you and Sam do so much for the horses and if I lived closer, I would to. I'm in no way saying either of you are making profit or don't care. I still firmly believe that adopting members should have the freedom to choose which they'd like to do, pay for QT or do it themshelves. We have done both- paid for QT at Sam's facility and other CBER facilities and done it ourshelves. It depends on where we're at with out QT facilities at the time of adoption. But it was our choice.
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Post by Maverick~Zora on Mar 13, 2008 11:14:40 GMT -5
All I can say is this, I have had all my CBER horses in QT for 30 days before moving them to CA.
I did it because I don't want any horse that maybe sick to travel to far. I did this for both the wellbeing of the horse & for the other horses that may come in contact with the horse I am moving.
Also even when the horse has been in my care but we moved to a new barn, I still do a mini QT, time wise I leave it to the discretion of the barn owner.
So on price, let's look at Zeke QH pony who is on the feedlot right now. He is listed at $550 I think, + QT & hauling, a total of about $880.
IMO, that's not a bad price for a good pony! I think that price is close to the open market price & if his training is good, I would say that price is cheep!
My question is this, how low does the price have to be, just because it is a rescue horse?
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Post by afinenettle on Mar 13, 2008 11:45:52 GMT -5
Putting my 2 cents in.....the prices ARE high for a rescue. But they are sustaining that particular effort and are justified to that end.
If you want to do the rescue and advertising yourself, though....PLEASE GO TO THE AUCTIONS!! We need many more rescuers at the auctions OR, like myself, FIND the needy horses in your neighborhood and give them a home or find them one BEFORE they end up at the auction. All are valid models.
CBER has had problems. Horses in the past have not fared well at all at some of the QY places. Horses have been poorly chosen for the investment asked. It would seem that instead of giving up in the face of internal and external problems and pressures - Sam is correcting these issues and going forward.
Well then - good for you Sam, and I hope you get the support to continue. I hope you have a sustaining support group too, cause these issues have been rough. I hope the situation is giving back to you as well, in satisfaction and growth. Best Wishes Kate Mom of CBER Cherry Bloosom (aka Rhiannon)
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Post by sam on Mar 13, 2008 12:13:43 GMT -5
QT is a CBER policy and is not changing. With that said the issue is closed you can write all you want on this thread but it will not change the QT policy.
Thanks,
Sam
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Post by sam on Mar 13, 2008 12:16:04 GMT -5
Putting my 2 cents in.....the prices ARE high for a rescue. But they are sustaining that particular effort and are justified to that end. If you want to do the rescue and advertising yourself, though....PLEASE GO TO THE AUCTIONS!! We need many more rescuers at the auctions OR, like myself, FIND the needy horses in your neighborhood and give them a home or find them one BEFORE they end up at the auction. All are valid models. CBER has had problems. Horses in the past have not fared well at all at some of the QY places. Horses have been poorly chosen for the investment asked. It would seem that instead of giving up in the face of internal and external problems and pressures - Sam is correcting these issues and going forward. Well then - good for you Sam, and I hope you get the support to continue. I hope you have a sustaining support group too, cause these issues have been rough. I hope the situation is giving back to you as well, in satisfaction and growth. Best Wishes Kate Mom of CBER Cherry Bloosom (aka Rhiannon) Thanks for your support! Sam
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Post by chamiyo on Mar 13, 2008 12:17:11 GMT -5
I have to comment on Mr. Magoo, I saw this horse in person the day after my friend picked him up. He was extremely thin. Thinner than the pictures showed on the website. He was dead lame and was very hyper excited which was understandable since he was in a new place. He was also at least 30 years old and looked it. He was advertised as being a good kid's horse and super broke. He also looked to possibly have cushings. this horse was so thin you could see all of his skeleton stretched tight over his bones. I would not have described him as a good child's mount not only due to his condition but also due to the fact that he was extremely keyed up even in that condition. I would not have chosen him as a horse for children seeing him in person. He was very cute and was probably a gorgeous horse in his youth but frankly I think the kindest thing for him would have been to put him down. My friend just lost her 34 year old pony who looked similiar to him and who by the way she bought right off the slaughter truck from Chuck for about $20.00. Did she really want to put her children through the possibility of losing another horse so soon after the pony? Mr . Magoo was advertised very differently from what he actually was. Shawna said after a month at her place he hadn't gained any weight and I doubt that is because she wasn't taking good care of him. I am quite sure she took great care of him.
On "backyard" horse keeping... I am sure that everyone who keeps their horses at home must keep them in crappy conditions, hock deep in sh*t and surrounded in barbwire. No one but a boarding facility can keep horses in a healthy way. Nice logic. I am also sure we don't all have property maintenence and utility bills and fuel costs. That must only be Sam's house. Whatever... I guess that's why we are good enough to pay the fees and board there for a month and then send them home to our shitholes. Nice way to characterize your adopters many of whom are "backyard" horse keepers. By the way, The mare my friend got? She called the previous owner who sold both her AND Classy Sunglow to Chuck for ....... $200.00 each. You do the math. These were fat pregnant mares. I think it was about $1200.00 total to get her off the lot. I have to go check. You check too. Someone is making a killing...
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Post by mkgbuegel on Mar 13, 2008 12:33:31 GMT -5
Wow, its always the same. There are lots of different rescues to support, pick the one that works for you. Don't try and change the one that doesn't.
Rescuing costs tons of money period, my personal opinion, is rescue the horse that speaks to you, tugs at your heart, does something for you on the inside because the hard cold reality is that the horse may never be ridable, it may not appreciate being saved, and it will certainly cost you allot of money.
Do it because you love it and do it in a way that works for you & the horse you rescue.
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Post by chamiyo on Mar 13, 2008 12:48:36 GMT -5
MKgbuegel, I hear what you are saying and I agree with it, but look at all of the horses sitting on the lot right now with no action. If it's always the same as you say then maybe that's because something does need to change. I mean what can you say about a $200 horse going for a total of $1200? You don't have a problem with that? Is everyone expected to lay out their hard earned money to save these sad horses that are posted for everyone to see and break our hearts so someone can make $1000 off each horse that might be shipped?
What happens when the money runs out? When everyone is tapped out both financially and emotionally? What happens to the horses then? Everyone says that rescue costs alot of money. I can agree with that. Everyone also says that if you run a rescue that you should be doing it out of your own pocket and that you shouldn't expect to make money off of it. That you shouldn't be expecting for others to pay your bills. What is ee here is alot of people willing to make personal sacrifices for these horses and it is a really wonderful and heartwarming thing to see. What is not so heartwarming is how a couple of people are really profiting from all of these wonderful people. I am all for saving the horses, I am just not for people being taken advantage of due to their caring hearts. That's all.
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Post by watermarkfarm on Mar 13, 2008 12:59:21 GMT -5
Yes, CBER prices for slaughter horses are high. Sam and Kate make great points ---- IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY THOSE PRICES FOR A RESCUE HORSE, GO RESCUE LOCALLY!!! Your $1000 or so will go much, much further!
$300 for 30 days QT board is a screamin' good deal.
I have a boarding facility. People b*tch about board, but do you really know what it takes to pull off boarding horses? I drain our savings to buy hay at decent prices. I have liability insurance costs, a tractor, and many repair costs (when your horse destroys fencing, it costs me money).
My blood runs cold at the thought of taking an unknown horse from a feedlot to my house. $300 is cheap compared to vet bills for having strangles run through your farm. $300 pays for the QT provider to sit up all night with your colicky rescue horse, or cancel her daytime appointments to deal with a vet call. $300 pays for her to buy truckloads of hay, well ahead of the time you decide to rescue a horse. It pays for equipment, breakage, wear and tear.
What I would like to see is a "package" price right up front, like the PMU rescues do. As in "$1200 includes feedlot bail price, CBER fee, 30 days QT board including wormer, hoof trim, antibiotics, vet health cert & coggins" That way, people know most of the up front costs of saving a CBER horse and not feel nickeled and dimed after the fact.
I have adopted/group adopted 3 CBER horses, all of whom went thru QT. The communication was poor; it was extremely frustrating at times. One horse arrived in CA with long feet and I was very angry about it. None of them brought serious diseases with them, though.
I am not a lunatic supporter of CBER, I see many issues with them that need improvement. But in general, they are trying very hard to do a good thing and to get better at it. I support and respect that. I have three equines who would not be alive today without the efforts of CBER and a wider network of kind folks, and for that I am grateful. I am willing to stand back and see the big picture.
And I am willing to see what needs improvement. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
For anyone in the SF Bay Area who wants to take on a rescue but without CBER prices, let me take you on any Monday to the Petaluma Livestock Auction, and I'll help you get a $50 horse. You'll have to work out your own QT board, though. I just can't take that chance.
Katie Moore Watermark Farm, Santa Rosa, CA CBER Rosalinda, CBER Rejuevenate, CBER Pay Day
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Post by leosolis on Mar 13, 2008 13:04:19 GMT -5
I have to comment on Mr. Magoo, I saw this horse in person the day after my friend picked him up. He was extremely thin. Thinner than the pictures showed on the website. He was dead lame and was very hyper excited which was understandable since he was in a new place. He was also at least 30 years old and looked it. He was advertised as being a good kid's horse and super broke. He also looked to possibly have cushings. this horse was so thin you could see all of his skeleton stretched tight over his bones. I would not have described him as a good child's mount not only due to his condition but also due to the fact that he was extremely keyed up even in that condition. I would not have chosen him as a horse for children seeing him in person. He was very cute and was probably a gorgeous horse in his youth but frankly I think the kindest thing for him would have been to put him down. My friend just lost her 34 year old pony who looked similiar to him and who by the way she bought right off the slaughter truck from Chuck for about $20.00. Did she really want to put her children through the possibility of losing another horse so soon after the pony? Mr . Magoo was advertised very differently from what he actually was. Shawna said after a month at her place he hadn't gained any weight and I doubt that is because she wasn't taking good care of him. I am quite sure she took great care of him. On "backyard" horse keeping... I am sure that everyone who keeps their horses at home must keep them in crappy conditions, hock deep in shoot and surrounded in barbwire. No one but a boarding facility can keep horses in a healthy way. Nice logic. I am also sure we don't all have property maintenence and utility bills and fuel costs. That must only be Sam's house. Whatever... I guess that's why we are good enough to pay the fees and board there for a month and then send them home to our shitholes. Nice way to characterize your adopters many of whom are "backyard" horse keepers. By the way, The mare my friend got? She called the previous owner who sold both her AND Classy Sunglow to Chuck for ....... $200.00 each. You do the math. These were fat pregnant mares. I think it was about $1200.00 total to get her off the lot. I have to go check. You check too. Someone is making a killing... I sent you a PM. Mr Magoo was NEVER LISTED AS A KIDS HORSE ON CBER. He also was sick while in QT. He also was NEVER LAME, NEVER KICKED..he isn't LAME OR KICKING at Sam's either. He also was listed as 20+ means he's OLD.
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Post by mkgbuegel on Mar 13, 2008 13:14:42 GMT -5
I don't have to go to Sams to know she isn't making any real money on these guys. I too run a boarding facility that specializes in rescues and rehabs. I am lucky if I break even on a monthly basis. I costs allot of money to deal with rescues. I costs allot emotionally and psychically as well. I don't have any problem with cber pricing the horses the way they do. My belief is that If I do not like the price then I do not pay it. There are dealers all over the us that sell to slaughter, legal or not. There are auction houses all over too. There are many many ways to help slaughter bound horses. I know I can't save them all so I have to give myself allot of credit for what I can do, never dwell on what I can not do and never bother to judge others for the way they choose to do it. We are all just trying to do our part to help with the mess.
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Post by halfwayhome on Mar 13, 2008 13:17:21 GMT -5
Again, no one suggested that QT should not be done and no one suggested to just haul feedlot horses home willy nilly and ask for problems. No one suggested that people who wanted to use the QT CBER offers not do it. No one suggested here that you shouldn't adopt a horse. This was meant to be a civil discussion of OPTIONS. I wasn't getting personal, but boy howdy did the CBER heads get a little excited with a simple question and discussion! As Shakespeare said, "Methinks thou dost protest too much!" Once open communication dies you become stagnant, again, just a thought...
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Post by sam on Mar 13, 2008 13:17:28 GMT -5
I have to comment on Mr. Magoo, I saw this horse in person the day after my friend picked him up. He was extremely thin. Thinner than the pictures showed on the website. He was dead lame and was very hyper excited which was understandable since he was in a new place. He was also at least 30 years old and looked it. He was advertised as being a good kid's horse and super broke. He also looked to possibly have cushings. this horse was so thin you could see all of his skeleton stretched tight over his bones. I would not have described him as a good child's mount not only due to his condition but also due to the fact that he was extremely keyed up even in that condition. I would not have chosen him as a horse for children seeing him in person. He was very cute and was probably a gorgeous horse in his youth but frankly I think the kindest thing for him would have been to put him down. My friend just lost her 34 year old pony who looked similar to him and who by the way she bought right off the slaughter truck from Chuck for about $20.00. Did she really want to put her children through the possibility of losing another horse so soon after the pony? Mr . Magoo was advertised very differently from what he actually was. Shawna said after a month at her place he hadn't gained any weight and I doubt that is because she wasn't taking good care of him. I am quite sure she took great care of him. On "backyard" horse keeping... I am sure that everyone who keeps their horses at home must keep them in crappy conditions, hock deep in shoot and surrounded in barbwire. No one but a boarding facility can keep horses in a healthy way. Nice logic. I am also sure we don't all have property maintenance and utility bills and fuel costs. That must only be Sam's house. Whatever... I guess that's why we are good enough to pay the fees and board there for a month and then send them home to our shitholes. Nice way to characterize your adopters many of whom are "backyard" horse keepers. By the way, The mare my friend got? She called the previous owner who sold both her AND Classy Sunglow to Chuck for ....... $200.00 each. You do the math. These were fat pregnant mares. I think it was about $1200.00 total to get her off the lot. I have to go check. You check too. Someone is making a killing... Do not twist my words - all I am saying is back yard homes can care for horses cheaper - there is nothing to dispute about that. I also said I could make QT cheaper but I would not be able to take care of the horses nor the facility in the manner that is acceptable to me. With many horses the wear and tear on a facility is great, as are all the expenses. Your friend got the mare for free thanks to the kind donors from CBER. Maybe you should check that facts before you type. It is common that FL buys horses for less then what he charges CBER that is basic arithmetic. If FLO priced the horses to us for the same price he bought them for he would go out of business. Kadydid was priced to CBER from Chuck for $600 and listed for $750 so if you want to b*tch, b*tch at the FLO because CBER made $100. Mr. Magoo is going to be evaluated and has a few really good options. TMr. Magoo is thin there is no doubt older horse take lots of time and money to bring back. We are exploring options with different people that are willing to give him that commitment. However he is calm, has not offered to kick or shown any aggression. I spoke to Shawna just this morning and she said Mr. Magoo was sick for three weeks but never lost any weight. Mr. Magoo is shedding and does not look to have the type of hair that comes along with Cushings. Without tests there is no way to determine if he is Cushings. I think he just needs to be wormed and fed groceries. He has remained calm and happy and is always eating. Why not go to the sales and get the horses before they go to a FL - they are cheaper, you can do your own QT and still are helping horses. What a win win situation. If you do not like CBER go help another rescue. CBER horses are not the only ones that need help! Thanks, Sam
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Post by lisam on Mar 13, 2008 13:18:12 GMT -5
Dont label her as not being able to give much,
I can't remember now who wrote this!
But I just want to state that I wasn't the one who came up with this--it's right there on Aida's description.
Without tests there is no way to determine if he is Cushings.
Is there a reason he's not getting the tests?
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Post by chamiyo on Mar 13, 2008 13:28:09 GMT -5
I have never said that quarantine board should not be offered just that if the person adopting want's to take that chance that it should be available for them to do so at their own cost and risk that's all. Just a choice! It's great that it is offered... for people who want or need it. I just think a few more horses might make it off the lot if there was an option. That extra $300 could go to vet costs, extra feed, extra fencing, new tack, helping another horse, whatever is needed.
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Post by keldco on Mar 13, 2008 13:31:25 GMT -5
PLEASE, folks! I'm begging you.....
Can we just table this discussion for a bit & CONCENTRATE on the horses on both feedlots who are going to loose their lives if we continue to loose FOCUS on their plight!!
Kelly
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Post by chamiyo on Mar 13, 2008 13:32:39 GMT -5
As for my friend getting the mare for free, I know that. It does not change the fact that someone still payed that much hard earned cash to get her off the lot. It is still the same.
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Post by lucy1994 on Mar 13, 2008 13:34:10 GMT -5
Oh please, are you kidding me. I told you they wanted to beat it to DEATH.
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Post by lisam on Mar 13, 2008 13:34:31 GMT -5
Did someone say that antibiotics and farrier care are included in the QT price?
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Post by paintedlady on Mar 13, 2008 13:35:24 GMT -5
I was going to stay out of this **BUT** we need to focus on the horses at the lots !! Time is running out. Why else are we here ?? Please lets not waist what time we have left disagreeing (sp)
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Post by paintedlady on Mar 13, 2008 13:37:40 GMT -5
PLEASE, folks! I'm begging you..... Can we just table this discussion for a bit & CONCENTRATE on the horses on both feedlots who are going to loose their lives if we continue to loose FOCUS on their plight!! Kelly Sorry Kelly. Guess I was typing while you were didnt mean to dupl. what you said
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Post by pnp4kidz on Mar 13, 2008 13:54:03 GMT -5
chamiyo, if you don't want to spend your hard earned money saving horses thru CBER, then please don't. your friend got a horse that folks who DID want to spend their money that way DID...
I get all kinds of sideways glances cause we rescue cushing's and foundered horses... 'why not spend your money on horses who can work?'... my vet thinks we are dumb as doornails and no sense in the world...
but.. it is MY choice how to spend my money... and this is my choice.
I have offered homes... to CBER horses... and others have offered the money. I offer to feed and shelter them, and pay vet, farrier, etc.... for YEARS... my choice, their choice, and we all feel good about it. we all are doing what we can. If you feel your hard earned money should go to young, working stock or training, then go for it!!! as Sam said, that is what is called 'win-win'.
I don't think CBER does it all perfectly.. but it is what it is... you either chose to spend your money there, or elsewhere. No one is coming to your door and holding a gun to your head... go find a good way to feel good about what you do..!!!
on another note... I am the one who had the horse that had strangles, got out and infected the ranch.... and that horse was being QT'd where he couldn't get nose to nose, as he was known to have strangles. it had burst. The fencing however was meant for a dog... chain link, with one of those lift the handle type gates.... and he let himself out... He was all over the place for a few hours... She felt really bad... and tried disinfecting. She actually fell in love with the horse, and kept him... then sent him for training as he was 'studdy'... then gave him away, then got him back... after he was labelled a 'kicker and a bad bad horse'... and then didn't have money to feed over winter and was going to send him to auction... so I heard, and bought him again. sigh he is down here with me now... not a kicker any more. had training (from a real trainer), and now is looking for a home.
we've QTd a few of our CBER horses down here, and one had BAD strangles, one had horrible pneumonia... and neither infected our other horses... QT is hard but doable.... oh, both horses were given a health certificate to leave WA within the day or two of arriving here VERY sick... We've done QT up there too, and two were in 'QT' after the big broohaha with horses 'dieing' and forced QT there... and they were at a facility charging for the QT but allowing them to be nose to nose with many other horses... one was an overlap, and when my hauler got there to pick up my 'done with QT' horse, she was taken to the one 'still in QT' who was SICK.. and encouraged to pet it!!! She was leading my 'clean' horse! (and thankfully she knew better than to touch the sick horse!!!) but, all is not perfect even in the realm of QT history during imposed QT in WA... This was not at Sam's... but I'm just saying.. . the 'rules' were not consistent on what was 'proper QT' even in the inner sanctum... it's obviously more consistent now, as Sam does it all... and I can't say as I haven't seen Sam's... I can only say what was observed at a different facility that was one of the approved ones just a few months ago...
My only thought is that there should be thought to how this should be further improved.... we can only keep improving the process... change is the only constant in life.
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Post by sam on Mar 13, 2008 14:16:07 GMT -5
Did someone say that antibiotics and farrier care are included in the QT price? This is my last post but this quote needs clarification. Horses that come to Camelot Farm (not Shawna's she has different protocol) are wormed and put on oral anti-biotic at my cost. If the horse requires more meds, farrier care, another worming (which I highly advise) that is at owners cost. Thanks, Sam
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Post by michellep on Mar 13, 2008 15:08:13 GMT -5
Just a quick thought about all of this, isnt it supposed to be about the horses at the lot? I will be the first to admit that I was a bit naive about rescuing a horse from a rescue. Thought it would be all great and good and we would ride off into the sunset........Now im seeing its a bit more work involved, a little more time will be needed but my efforts will be worth the time. Each time I look at Turtle and see how he is settling in and becoming a part of my family and the progress made so far, I am pleased and glad he is mine. I looked for a very long time, and didnt think the price on him was overly high (all fees included+training). It all boils down to this simple fact. Its a free country, do what you want, support any rescue or dont. Take a chance on a rescue horse or go buy from a private owner. No need to be critical of those that are at the front lines every day doing rescue. Maybe a discussion privately where your horse is being QT would be best. I looked at a lot of horses on this site as well as other rescues and privately before I finally made up my mind. Hindsight is always 20/20, look at all the options before making that committment.
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