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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 1:17:01 GMT -5
Post by michelle on Jan 24, 2009 1:17:01 GMT -5
I was sent this post tonight, asking if this were really the true explanation: Both of Maple's knee caps rotated outwards. My vet, who is a sometimes advisor as well as several trainers said the horse should have been euthanized. To keep a horse alive with two bad legs is cruel. The sad thing is that the original owner of this horse did not do the right thing but rather did what some ranchers and farmers do, put the horse on the meat wagon. As an organization, CBER had the responsiblity to the horse to get a vet assessment and depending on the outcome, to have the horse either treated or euthanized. To return a horse to slaughter even if it is traded for another is not acceptable, ever. The old BOD should have been asking questions and keeping track of the horses in QT. Part of the problem was the ABR fundraising, and the saving of too many horses without home offers, and then not stepping up and figuring out how the rescue was going to sustain them. As an organization, we have an obligation to support those we take, and also to find them homes. To have 30 horses sitting around in a pasture with no handling, no training, just minimal care is not doing any horse or any potential owner any service. This is my opinion only and not the opinion of CBER. Maple had a home. Maple was paid for. There was no reason for this. Sam knew about it before it happened. Sam told people she transported the poor filly back to the lot. She changed her story when she confessed to me, and said that Deb asked her to transport Maple, but that she (Sam) told her she couldn't. That is an alibi FAIL. If Deb asked her about it, then Sam knew what she was up to, that Maple was in danger, and Sam did nothing to save her. As for the BoD keeping track of the horses in QT: The BoD were Sam and Wendy. TWO people, Repp. Are you saying that Sam wasn't keeping track of the horses in QT on her own property? Sure sounds like it. Those of us that were volunteers (and were mislead about being BoD) DID keep track of the horses in QT. We set up a database to track ALL of the horses, and who adopted them. Know why we couldn't keep track of horses in QT, Repp? SAM WOULD LIE TO US. She told us Maple had already been adopted. SHE LIED. I am so so tired of you passing the buck, Repp. Volunteers are not responsible for horses being returned to the feedlot BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE RESCUE. Sam is responsible for her own actions. ALL of them.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 1:38:45 GMT -5
Post by TashGaia on Jan 24, 2009 1:38:45 GMT -5
Sam most certainly knew about Maple going back to the lot, since she was the one who apparently hauled her there! Deb had no trailer and both Deb AND Sam told people that Sam was the one who hauled her. And how do they explain the fact that Midge, the horse Maple was traded to slaughter for, was also listed by CBER? For those folks who remember the Lavender and Meadow controversy... didn't you ever wonder why Sam was covering for Deb? It was because Deb had info that Sam didn't want to get out - one of which was Maple. I wonder what Sam's followers excuses are for all the horses that Sam herself was QTing? This is what I posted a long time ago on another board. I was recently told of a current drama on the new CBER board. Apparently there was some strange wording regarding a horse that might be taken back to the feedlot. Instantly there was uproar, and backpeddling, and assurances that no CBER horse would ever be returned to the feedlot - that it had never happened before and never would in the future. I would testify under oath in a court of law that it has happened before and that I was told of these occurrences by the President of CBER herself. And no, I am not talking about unpaid for horses that had to be returned. Shall we speak of Maple? A two year old filly who was bailed and QTed by funds from the generous FOBs... a filly who was described as sweet. A filly that I have since confirmed had a home offer at a certain ranch retreat down in Oregon... This filly was taken back to the feedlot and traded for another horse named Midge. She was taken back by either Sam or Deb depending on which story you believe... both coming from Sam herself and told directly to myself and 3 others. The first time I asked Sam about Maple she told me that Deb wanted to take her back and trade her for another horse named Midge and that Sam herself hauled Maple to the lot since Deb did not have a trailer. The second time I talked to Sam about Maple she said the exact same thing except that she said that she did not haul Maple and that Deb probably borrowed Kerrie's trailer to do it. Chuck himself was even called to verify what happened to Maple and he did. Maple was safe and off the lot and had been paid for in full - then was taken back to the lot and shipped to slaughter. I remember distinctly when I was told of what happened to Maple by another rescuer. I did not believe it and I called her a liar, then I called Sam and asked her about it. Sam flat out admitted it to me and told me all about it. I had to call the other gal back and apologize for calling her a liar. I would never have believed it if Sam had not told me directly. I (and others) have told this story on the boards before and no one seemed to care. This I do not understand. How can anyone call themselves a rescuer and think that this is acceptable? What does it take to make a rescue not a rescue? I defended CBER beyond all doubt and question for years... I was one of their staunchest defenders until this year. There were more problems with CBER then Maple, but looking back on things, Maple was the beginning of the end for my support of CBER. Those who would call me a liar... you might want to consider this. When Maple went back to the feedlot, I was on the Board of Directors for CBER. I do not know the legalities... but it is a distinct possibility that even though I had no knowledge of what happened to Maple until long after the fact, that I may well be in some way legally accountable. If this is true, then by telling what happened to Maple, I have everything to lose and nothing to gain... This is not right, and I will never stop saying it. A rescue should NOT send a horse to slaughter. A rescue should not solicit funds from the Friends of Barbaro, pull the horse (paid for in full), quarantine the horse, then send the horse back to the feedlot despite a home offer from an approved and beloved adopter... and adopter who was told that the horse had been adopted and did not need their home offer. I would stand up in court and repeat this story or say it in front of a polygraph machine. Let no one speak against it unless they are also willing to stand up in court with what they have to say.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 1:46:23 GMT -5
Post by leosolis on Jan 24, 2009 1:46:23 GMT -5
Oh...I remember this day well......
I was doing dishes, Sam called & told me to back off of Deb from avalon mist farms. I of course said HELL NO why? Sam's reply stopped me dead in my tracks. " Deb traded Maple back to Chuck for a horse she could sell Midge" I immediatly said....how in the hell is that dirt on you, you need to tell everyone & then they will understand...her reply " I hauled Maple back to the lot when she traded for Midge" ... I could't fricken believe what she had just said...I even had her repeat it.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 1:55:00 GMT -5
Post by jessiegirl1981 on Jan 24, 2009 1:55:00 GMT -5
I am sick to death that Sam thinks Dean's down fall is something to party over. Dean is sick and Sam is a greedy ___ch. I dont know what it is going to take to get people to see this. Sending a horse to slaughter is never ok whether it was 1 or 1000. It is never ok no matter how many she saved. The thing about CBER also is when you are a volunteer you think Sam is the be all end all. As you start really talking to people you discover all the roles are covered by volunteers Sam has nothing to do but sit on her ass and reap the rewards. She doesnt go to the feedlot heavy hearted she goes to b.s. with her friend Chuck. The people that have saved these horses are the ones that were working the boards and all their friends and relatives she profited off our hard work and big hearts
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 2:09:41 GMT -5
Post by leosolis on Jan 24, 2009 2:09:41 GMT -5
I am sick to death that Sam thinks Dean's down fall is something to party over. Dean is sick and Sam is a greedy ___ch. I dont know what it is going to take to get people to see this. Sending a horse to slaughter is never ok whether it was 1 or 1000. It is never ok no matter how many she saved. The thing about CBER also is when you are a volunteer you think Sam is the be all end all. As you start really talking to people you discover all the roles are covered by volunteers Sam has nothing to do but sit on her ass and reap the rewards. She doesnt go to the feedlot heavy hearted she goes to b.s. with her friend Chuck. The people that have saved these horses are the ones that were working the boards and all their friends and relatives she profited off our hard work and big hearts Sam had ALOT to do with the downfall of PEC..she dumped horse after horse on Dean. Sometimes even before there 30 days were over, but she still kept the QT.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 2:14:47 GMT -5
Post by jessiegirl1981 on Jan 24, 2009 2:14:47 GMT -5
I received this email a long time ago and forgot I still had it. I am in no way excusing Dean or Deb but Sam gets no free pass either she is no better!!!!
I wanted to let you know that if you have to go to court with $am I will testify for you. I am so sick of all of the crap going on and it all needs to end. $am needs to quit killing horses and quit using people! I volunteered because I wanted to help take care of the Strangle horses and Doctor them back to health (which I did at the tune of about 50 horses) And because I realy liked working with Heidi. One of the first horses here was Nimbus, Heidi and I had the vet here we had her hooked up to IV's only to loose her. I realy wanted to do the right thing! I found out later that $am sent all of the sickest horses to me so she would not have the disease at her place. Anyway long story short one thing lead to another and before I knew it I was in the middle of all of her horse murdering crap.... All you were to $am was a dumping ground for horses so she would not have to feed them. Once she made her money off of the horses she could care less what happened to them. You got all of the old, lame,skinny and wild horses that now one would adopt. Any horses that did not go to you went to Wayne for Oley to pick up! I am sure that is where Lavendar and Meadow went. The day that Wayne picked them up $am told me to put any CBEr horses on his trailer that I could not take care of. I had over 40 horses here with no help.($am was making me pay for CBEr's hay to feed CBEr's horses how dumb was I)? I put Lavendar, Meadow, Vesper and Dandelion on that trailer. (this was per $am they were CBEr's horses not mine)! Vesper was VERY lame and I assumed he would be put down. I thought that Dandy was kept by Wayne only to find out yesterday that he is dead also.. I am sure now that it was not by Bullet but by Oley picking them up and shipping them. Believe me I curse the day I ever got involved with CBEr. I was just trying to help and was taken advantage of and then tossed out when $am was done with me. I have to live with the things I helped with thinking I was doing what I had to do to save more horses..No one else but me has to answer to the good Lord for what was done. I AM SO VERY SORRY FOR EVERYTHING THAT WAS DONE AND EVERYTHING I HELPED WITH!!!! Now $am states that I would not give anything away I could sell. Now isin't that the pot calling the kettle black. I had to sell horses in order to buy CBEr hay to support CBEr horses. Once the QT money was gone from the first month I had horses that were here for 6 months and more that I had to take care of. Sam Always sent the horses to me that were not easy to adopt out. Just like you horses that were old, sick, lame and had no adopters. She kept all of the horses that were easy to adopt out and re-sell and believe me she would never give a horse away she could sell it either. I am rambling now just know that if you need my help I am there for you! Also rememder what goes around comes around and it is time..... Deb
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 10:58:20 GMT -5
Post by marilyn2008 on Jan 24, 2009 10:58:20 GMT -5
Deb should have refused to accept all the horses that Sam dumped on her, without her prior permission, without her knowledge that the horses were being brought to her.
Deb and Sam should NEVER have put any horses on a truck headed to Wayne's house, knowing full well that they were going to Oly to be sent to slaughter by him.
Dean should have refused to accept all the horses that Sam dumped on her, without her prior permission, without her knowledge that the horses were being brought to her.
There is NO EXCUSE for that shoddy way in which those poor horses were exploited and sent to their deaths by "rescuers".
There is NO EXCUSE for selling horses already paid for...to outsiders for yet MORE money, only to be told the horse was "adopted".
There is NO EXCUSE for taking QT money, then sending horses on their way shortly after arriving in QT (before the 30 days is up).
There is NO EXCUSE for leaving a horse in QT to suffer with supposed colic, and take off to go buy hay, leaving the horse alone....only to have Shawna go there and discover that not only was the horse colicking but the horse was also cast. Shawna, was the poor horse already dead when you arrived or near death?
There is NO EXCUSE for all the covering up, all the lies, all the proclaimations from the supporters that "wonderful sam is at the lot sobbing her heart out trying to save the horses", painting such a wonderful caring picture of her when that was not the case at all.
There is NO EXCUSE for any of the atrocities that have occurred.
There is NO EXCUSE for all those people who knew what was going on and kept their mouths shut because they didn't want to get in trouble or they wanted to protect Sam. All the lies, deceit, trechery and false claims of grandeur is what also contributed to the deaths of those horses....in that if the TRUTH were made known immediately, EVERY ONE of the supporters would have rallied in the horses' defense and would have made sure that the atrocities were not repeated. Because the masses were lied to, the perpetrators felt they could get away with anything and the killing continued.
WHAT HAPPENED TO SPRING? The rumor is (remember the ICER thread?) that Spring was never even taken off the lot but the money collected for her was divided between Sam, Deb and Shawna.
I want to know the TRUTH about Spring, as ugly as it will be and in spite of who was really involved in her death and who profited from it.
WE ALL WANT THE TRUTH. IT'S ABOUT TIME.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 13:16:30 GMT -5
Post by halfwayhome on Jan 24, 2009 13:16:30 GMT -5
It was after I left, but I heard from a source I believe that Spring did not ever leave the lot, that S selected another horse to take her place that she felt was more marketable. The funds also involved Cozumel being sent to ship after being saved. I do not know who profited for sure from the transactions, except that one was $am. Maybe Shawna can let us know about this. I also know that as I was on my out, I saw $am setting Deb up in many ways. I tried to tell her and help her, but she truly believed she was helping the horses and it is very true that she was specifically given the worst cases of both sick or old or unhand led and she did the best she could at the time. I also know that $am told all of us early on that if anyone did QT we HAD to charge the same as Camelot and I said "Screw that" basically, as no one can tell me what to do on my place and I thought the sum suggested was exorbitant. I had QT'ed the mare with the baby that was born at the feedlot for Mulesrule just in exchange for her bringing me some replacement hay only. Later then she was going to adopt that big pinto drafty type one and $am raised the price on its QT without telling her ( from $5 a day to $9 a day) and presented her with a huge bill when she was going to get it. Needless to say, she walked away from cber and didn't look back and didn't get the horse either. Don't know where that horse ended up. Deb got stuck between a rock and a hard place by $am, as if she didn't do what $am said she was left to hang with no help at all for the expenses of cber horses ( not that she got much anyway) She was made to PAY for hay from $ams farm to feed the cber rescue horses! Deb did not know how to tell $am no and did have a very soft heart for trying to help. No, I definitely do not defend those horses being sent off or returned and did not know about it as I was not a volunteer then, but I did know how $am operated, and there was no way in h*ll that those horses would have gone anywhere on Deb' say-so alone. She had no trailer, and in fact did not even have Wayne's name or phone number at the time. $am kept that close to the vest, as many times we were lied to about this great "ranch home" that horses were going to but were never told the name until we found out later. In regarding the horses sent back, I feel that given the fact that $am was directing everything that happened to them, there is no way it was done without her knowledge or sanction, she would throw s*it fits if anyone did anything without her permission, especially if they were cber horses. It was wrong and I wish Deb would have shouted out to everyone, but she was really afraid of what $am and her felon boyfriend would do to her, they had threatened her, and the felon was/is not a nice person and has a very bad reputation locally. YES SAM LIED- WE ALL WERE LIED TO. We had good intentions and tried to help but we were not told the truth and did not see any of the money or the books to know for sure. I helped Deb get the vet out on numerous occasions for horses at her place and bought meds and feed and vet out of my own pocket, cber could have cared less, and this was after I left. I wish I would have known about them being sent off but I didn't.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 14:12:28 GMT -5
Post by lorsadoon on Jan 24, 2009 14:12:28 GMT -5
That is how people like Sam work, they know how to pick victims. The thing about Lavender and Meadow though is, I repeatedly asked for info on them. Why didn't Deb, who was their PS, respond to my inquiries?
When people make mistakes, I feel they need to step up to the plate and say, "I made a horrible mistake. I am willing to take responsibility for what I did. I will try to do everything in my power to make things right. Please forgive me."
I have not heard that from her. Or Dean. I am certain I will NEVER hear it from Sam.
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 15:41:32 GMT -5
Post by gsdmom on Jan 24, 2009 15:41:32 GMT -5
I have tried to keep very quiet here about things that are said about Deb. (mostly because I won't be able to change anyone's opinion anyway) It is easy for some to second guess and say things should have been handled differently. She and I have cried together over some of the horses that died while they were at her place. She once told me that she had never even seen a horse die until she started trying to help CBER. I think Deb was taken in by Sam, just as others have been. My personal experience tells me that she has a very soft heart and tries to help. When Debbie at Mustang Hearts needed a place for FOB saves from Davenport to go Deb drove over and picked up 3 or 4. Destiny came from that save. Deb kept her for almost a month for us and didn't take a dime for her care. This doesn't sound like a person that is out to make money on horses. I know everyone has their own personal experience with some of the key players here. I guess we can piece together bits and pieces, but the only ones that really know are Sam and Deb. We have two wonderful horses here with us that never would have made it except for things that Deb stepped up to do for them.
Kathy
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Maple
Jan 24, 2009 19:33:15 GMT -5
Post by leosolis on Jan 24, 2009 19:33:15 GMT -5
I am completely confused how my name got involved with Sam, Deb :& Spring? I don't even remember Spring? She wasn't on Dave's lot. I have never been to the feedlot with Sam & Deb, never rode in a car with the two of them, never even went anywhere with the two of them & god d**n sure never accepted a dime of money on a horse that was taken back to the feedlot. You do realize I live about 90 miles from Sam right? Why would I be in on some deal from Chucks lot with her & Deb? I recived money from CBER for QT & Hauling...thats it. I wasn't ever a part of anything to do with Chuck. Sam paid Dave directly, I had to submit the amounts owed to him for the horses & they paid him..
As far as the horse that colic'd, it was alive, I managed to get him uncast & walked him for about an hour before a very defensive vet showed up, upon which he told me I could leave. So I did, I heard later that night that the horse died shortly after I left, he was definately not comfortalbe when I was walking him, but I kept him upright.
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