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Post by sassiedogtk on Apr 6, 2007 12:52:50 GMT -5
OK my parents have a horse that has a bucking problem. He is a great horse does everything very quiet not spooky. He will buck for what seems like no reason. The last time he did this we had been gathering cows for about an hour some cows took off and my brother and I went after them next thing I know my brother went flying off the horse and the horse had been great up too that point. This horse does not just give you a little crow hop or buck he bucks like something you would see at a rodeo. He is very young just turned 4 so maybe he was just started too young? Any advice would be great, we have had horses for years and never had a horse like this, and he is starting to get dangerous. Thanks , Tina.
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Post by Admin on May 3, 2007 6:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by sassiedogtk on May 13, 2007 11:18:18 GMT -5
Thanks I love Monty too. We found a John Lions cerit. person in our area and he is going to take a look at him for us. This is out of our range of knowledge, so on to the nest step.
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Post by trish on Aug 21, 2007 14:44:59 GMT -5
What the heck is a "buck stop"? I have never heard of it in my life. Does it hurt the horse or just hold the head a certain way to not let them buck?
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Post by toeps on Aug 21, 2007 15:16:57 GMT -5
May want to first rule out wolf teeth, back problems, saddle fit etc. Basically anything that may be causing pain or discomfort
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 22, 2007 1:53:48 GMT -5
oh boy, i have one of these right now too... did all of that.. .checked all the pain stuff...
found lots of tiny things, fixed them, he'd be a 'new horse', and then, in a show or two, bam. Bucking, hard, big full all four legs off the ground humped up kicking up bucks... middle of a horse show each time, when daughter made kiss sound and let him loose to canter or trot.
now, we've found a painful ear...
so, tomorrow vet comes again.
I am not sure what more I can do!
we've gone thru 4 saddles, a dozen bridles, a half dozen or more pads of all sorts...
chiro, massage, dental, rest, exercize, feed changes, worming.
now, ear check.
what more IS there?
it is dangerous. My kid is gonna get hurt. the only reason he is still with us is that she has made state on him, and it's too late to get a new horse and qualify. So, making her walk.
she is REALLY mad. But I can't let him keep bucking her off.
Hey PEC, tell me what this 'buck stop' is.
not sure it will help...
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Post by watermarkfarm on Aug 22, 2007 15:20:14 GMT -5
Oh man, I've seen Monty do that "buck stopper" thing and it made my skin crawl.
Sassiedog, PLEASE call the John Lyons certification program in Colorado and talk to them about whatever "certified" person you are looking at. Find our their *ranking* in their class, and also ask around about that person. I was just talking with someone in NorCal about a JL certified "trainer" who took a nice horse in training for 2 mos and turned out a nice horse with a serious bucking problem. Just because they go thru this program does NOT make them a trainer able to handle a serious issue.
My horse has been in training with Raye Lochert, who is thru the JL program. Raye does a good job but there are certain problems, like a bucker, that I would NOT send to him.
There is a really super reining horse trainer in Galt. Her name is Deanna Texara, and I've seen her work, and she is really gentle and firm and fantastic and she takes all types of horses. Last time I was there she had a naughty Friesian in training. She just started my friend's horse, and I am planning to have her re-start a horse for me this winter. I would google her and talk to her. She is $750/month for training/board. I suggest you get in touch with her --- she'd be my pick for an issue like this.
And have a chiropractor take a look at the horse, and also your saddle fit. There is often a physical cause for bucking (and sometimes not!)
Katie
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Post by mkgbuegel on Aug 22, 2007 16:15:29 GMT -5
Second that!
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Post by bridgetah on Aug 22, 2007 21:27:36 GMT -5
I really recommend Jerry Tindell or Charles Wilhelm for this type of problem.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 23, 2007 1:40:04 GMT -5
Oh well... if all else fails... listen to the kid.
so, my daughter tells me last weekend, "Mom, Camelots left ear hurts... ONLY his left ear."
so, I go out, and sure enough, can pet right ear, won't let me pet left. flinches when I palpate around base of ear... and shook his head for a LONG time after I poked my finger tip in his ear base.... inside the canal part a tiny bit....
hmmmm....
so, she 'got' a treeless saddle for her birthday... can't say THAT tree doesn't fit :-)
and we saddled him up for a spin....
welll... sure nuf... walking he's fine, but go to a trot? shaking that head... tipping to the left.
so, we stop.
Vet called. Comes today. tells me, horses almost NEVER have ear infections... (but I know of ONE, and he knew of two)... worth a peek he says... .gotta sedate AND twitch real good... horses HATE ears looked into and horse ears are deep and squiggly.
So, took an hour, but in the end...
go figure,
right ear looks fine (ooops, kid told him wrong ear first.. sneaky!)
left ear??? VERY inflamed and perhaps has a funny 'growth' in there!!!
wow.
so, we're doing ear drops and gentamycin IM for a week, and rescope it in 2 weeks.
and, we will see.
could have nothing to do with it of course. but he does always start with head shaking.... when asked to trot.
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 30, 2007 2:34:11 GMT -5
Ok - I have no idea what your horses issue is - but here is my little story. Don't know if this will comfort you BUT sometimes horses just buck! LOL
I have what is now a 26 year old QH stallion - outstanding foundation breeding and looks to die for. I have had him since he was born - I was a little kid then, but was there to watch him be born, and him and I have been a pair ever since.
He is an AMAZING cow horse - and I dare say the best horse I have ever owned. He is amazingly well trained and I have won alot of money on him in the roping arena, not to mention in cutting as well as day to day ranch work. He can read a cow wonderfully and him and I have a GREAT partnership. We GET eachother!
BUT - EVERY time I get on him - for the better part of 22 years(started at 4) he throws my butt in the dirt. and it isn't a little buck - it is full on, throw me down hard enough to knock the wind out. I have tried EVERYTHING - even getting a rough stock rider to try to ride the "buck" out of him...no such luck. We tried different saddles, getting a vet out to check him over, you name it. Nothing - It is his mantra if you will. He has also only really ever let 2 people fully ride him - me and my Grandpa who is now passed away. He will throw others and then literally stomp them in the ground. He is mean about it. LOL Pinned ears, barred teeth....
BUT - at this point - I understand him and that this is his deal. I get on, he bucks me off, he comes to make sure I am ok( I think he is laughing), I get up - get on, and we have a FANTASTIC ride. lol.
Do I like this? NO! But I have learned to deal with it. He used to buck alot more, but as he has gotten older it just works out to be when I first step on him.
IMO - it is the smart horses that do this... if you can rule out medical and saddle - you might have to rule IN that it is his gig. My only real question - is there PocoBueno breeding somewhere close in the lines LOL!
Sara in WA
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 30, 2007 11:52:22 GMT -5
That is too funny! Well, I guess if you wear padded panties to cush your fall... that it's all good!!! It is all a guessing game as to 'why' they do it!!! I always want to be sure it isn't me hurting them tho... but I have to wonder how dang many things can this horse get in a row that hurt him enough to buck?  hips out of alignment, then wolf teeth, bad saddle fit on shoulder blades, now ears... I think he just bucks, AND has tons of health problems!! LOL!!! stinker. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 30, 2007 12:37:40 GMT -5
A buck stopper just keeps the horse from putting his head down.
A horse can't get much buck without lowering his head. I don't have a problem giving then a sharp little pop on their butt to remind them we are going forward.
I just grab more rein and keep their head turned up and to the side tight. Lots of circles until they decide bucking isn't all that much fun.
I do believe there are some horses out there that buck just for the heck of it, They delight in watching things fly over their head. You!
Not acceptable and dangerous.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 30, 2007 13:59:09 GMT -5
My daughter is SO darned good at keeping his head up... IF she gets some warning.
then, BAM... sometimes he gives a single HUGE rodeo buck,
front feet up off the ground first, humped back then hinds go straight up with a force and twist...
then, he stops and stands there waiting for her to get up.
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Post by wendyp on Aug 30, 2007 14:26:59 GMT -5
Treeless saddles were originally made to fit alot of different horses - FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME. They weren't intended to be used on one horse all day long...............That info came from Mark Rashid and Dr. Dave Semens. The treeless saddles still have a pommel, and that only goes so wide, so there still can be pressure on the shoulders - maybe even more so than with a treed saddle because there is nothing to keep that Pommel off the horses withers - no tree. Also, they can create pressure points (orthoflex, and other treeless saddles do to) because there is no tree to sit on the horses back - my Bob Marshall saddle would literally fold in half (cantle would touch the pommel) if it wasn't put on a saddle rack. So if the pressure of the rider isn't being evenly distributed by the tree of the saddle, then there could easily be 'pressure' where the rider is sitting.
Does he buck early in the ride, or later, after he's been worked for awhile? I went to a weeklong clinic with Mark Rashid in CO last year, and there was a guy there that had brought two horses - his endurance horse, and his wifes little gaited horse. The little gaited horse was there because his wife was having behavioral problems with him that had just kept getting worse and worse. Dr. Dave and Mark went over him, found where his back hurt (ALOT) and then had the guy put the very nice Orthoflex saddle on him..............the sore spots matched perfectly with where the 'points' on the orthoflex pushed on the horse. He was so sore he almost went down when they pushed on his back. The owner was Stunned! He thought since it was a treeless that there was nothing to hurt the horse with - he was actually angry that treeless saddles are touted to fit any horse, be better than a treed saddle, etc. Dr. Dave adjusted the horse (if the saddle hurts, the horse compensates by not moving correctly, holding himself incorrectly, etc.) and by the end of the week, the horse felt pretty good - they never put that saddle back on him.
If your daughters horse hasn't been adjusted since you changed saddles, that might be an issue - maybe the treeless is working for him, but he is still 'out' from the last saddle...........
How long has it been Beth since the horse had a chiro adjustment? Sometimes this is an ongoing process - not just a one time thing. Lotti (CBER Cherri) gets adjusted a couple of times a year - or at least checked by the Chiro - because her withers go 'out'. I try to always use a mounting block because that adds huge stress on the withers when mounting........ CBER Kasey has had at least 6 chiro visits and I think she is finally doing better. They sometimes just don't hold the adjustments. My Chiro is also an accupuncturist and a DVM, so he doesn't just come out and adjust the whole horse - he checks to see where they need it, and adjusts accordingly......all the other chiros I have used have just started at the head and adjusted everything back to the tail!
Just thought I would throw out my two cents - feel free to disregard...................
WendyP/Bend, OR
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 30, 2007 14:40:23 GMT -5
No way I"ll disregard Wendy! fresh eyes to see the problem is what it's all about! She has only ridden once in her treeless, we just bought it, but we went thru quite a few saddles last year, tree'd ones. He is short backed, and although he looks quite regular backed, the front of the saddle always looks like it drops 'in'... whatever saddle we use. we found that he hunched his shoulders and put his head down if the saddle is at ALL over his shoulder blades, so it is put WAYYYY back now... and now we also put a build up in the front. we got an arab tree'd Circle Y for him, as he is short backed. I looked at her show times this week, and found that he was running good until he was adjusted again in June! He was done 3 times last year, and held pretty well she said, then so far once this year... and she said all he had was one hip more 'forward' than the other. She does a full body shiatzu massage too (wont' do humans, darn!) so he gets the full treatment. she SWEARS his shoulders are not painful... but I'm not sure. other weird thing is his right front foot is going clubby... maybe I look too closely at all this stuff... we are treating with White Lightning for deep frog clefts/thrush to see if we can't open that hoof back up, and lower the heel again. I swear I poked and prodded his back and shoulders last night while he was eating his uniprim... and there was not a single flinch. His hips felt even, and nothing bothered him. Here is a pic of him taking a turn at the show just before he started this up again this year... this is two years in a row now!!! he did fine at the beginning, then, boom. overnight he's a buckeroo...  you can see he is bending his body, and digging in really well... not avoiding her at all! Next show... couldn't get him to even trot around a barrel. |
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Post by crum on Aug 30, 2007 15:46:04 GMT -5
I had a couple of thoughts since it sounds like you have ruled out most of the common causes.
I had a horse that would get "stomach aches" at the shows. She would stress herself incredibly and by the time her classes would come around she would not want to move out because her stomach would be bothering her. Keeping her munching on hay throughout the day and making sure she always had at least one other horse she knew visible when she was not working mellowed her out enough that these issues stopped. You could try changing his routine at the shows to relax him more if it appears that he is suffering from stress at all.
I had another horse that his western show saddle was different than the one he was ridden in at home. Whenever he would round his back and engage his hind end to canter at the show the show saddle would catch him in the point of his hips and he would start bucking. Standing still it was not very obvious that this would be an issue with that saddle, but watching video it was fairly apparent. It may be worthwhile for someone to video tape your daughter's horse to see if there is anything going on immediately previous to the bucking that could be triggering it.
modified to add of course these would only be necessary to check on if it turns out it is not his ear that is causing his behavior. Also the mare with the stomach aches was checked for ulcers back before ulcers were even considered a problem. She showed no signs of them.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 30, 2007 17:52:01 GMT -5
Oh he is definately nervous at the shows... he gets runny diarrhea from the time we load up in the trailer, and it goes on all day.
He is always tied with the other two at the trailer, and I ALWAYS keep a full hay bag in their face all day.... it's a thing with me... :-)
they get water fresh every 2-3 hours, or more,
but he is still nervous.
the weird thing is that the very first show we ever took him to he was the vision of calmness... he was actually the rock for Ms Taffy!!! He did great last year too, at the beginning, then it all went down hill in summer again...
he needs prozac
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Aug 31, 2007 2:18:06 GMT -5
Not sure if they drug test at that level with the horses, but you might try putting him on moderate to high doses of tryptophan(sp?). Try a product called Vita-Calm at the shows. Good stuff - can't say that this will stop other issues, but it may help him calm down some!
Sara in WA
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Post by pnp4kidz on Aug 31, 2007 16:28:25 GMT -5
Good idea! I'll look for that!
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Post by sassiedogtk on Sept 1, 2007 10:48:51 GMT -5
I sure hope that you can help your horse with this problem. I don't know what my parents are going to do with there horse. We did not take him to the JL guy he was not what we needed. This horse is unpredictable, there is no warning or sign, tried lots of saddles and other things. No pain in his back. He is out on ten acres so its not like he sits in a pen all day and is just full of it. If he just gave a little buck it would not be a problem but he looks like he should be in a rodeo. He is probably going to become a pasture pet. He bucked one trainer off three times  . We just don't want anyone to get hurt (anymore). Good Luck and I hope you can make him safe for your daughter. |
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hips out of alignment, then wolf teeth, bad saddle fit on shoulder blades, now ears... I think he just bucks, AND has tons of health problems!! LOL!!! stinker.
. We just don't want anyone to get hurt (anymore). Good Luck and I hope you can make him safe for your daughter.