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Post by redhorse on Jan 9, 2009 20:26:10 GMT -5
These were the two horses whose story made me realize that I needed, in my small way, to speak out about CBER. I would value knowing, once and for all, if Sam shipped these elder mares. If I read Tash's statement correctly they did indeed ship and were not euthanized, by bullet or any other means. Then there was Lavendar, Meadow, Dandelion and Vesper. All shipped out together and all dead before anyone had any idea what was happening. |
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Post by redhorse on Jan 9, 2009 20:59:31 GMT -5
So was this ridiculous letter of "comfort" from the compassionate director of CBER even more of a lie than it seemed at the time?Rationale for the shooting of CBER rescue mares Meadow and Lavender Provided on the Alex Brown Wiki by Samantha Milbredt Panayotopulos, President of Columbia Basin Equine Rescue =Questions from FOBs Hi All -
I am going to respond once and will not monitor this thread so do not complain that I do not respond I am pressed for time as it is. Also this is going to be to the point and not my flowery bubby response as I am frustrated that this issue is still present.
I have been trying to save you all from these graphic details but you will not let this issue rest. So here we go.
Yes, Lavendar and Meadow were put down by a bullet to the head with the support from most of the CBER BOD. There were not shot in front of one another. They were both tranquilized because they would freak out if they were separated. Meadow was taken first as she would react more violent when separated, so it was decieded to put her down first before the drugs wore off. She was hauled out to a grassy field on a friend's 350 acre ranch and was put down while drousily eating grain. Lavendar was taken to another part of his property and put down in the same manner.
Why a bullet? I prefer this method for my own horses. I take all the horses in my care seriously. While death is not a fun topic it is part of life and what is importatnt to me is that the horse has no fear, does not suffer and rests in a digified place.
An unsuspecting bullet to the head of a tranquilized horse or a horse eating grain is the quickest, there is no fear and the horse is dead before it hits the ground or the noise of the bullet registers in your brain. The horses are laid to rest back in nature to be recycled naturally. To me a dignified end.
While Euthasol is a very effective drug, the process for CBER has its short comings. We do not have a renderer in this area so we are forced to put horses down in a trailer and dispose of them at a dump. First, what horse do you know that does not get nervous in a trailer? Second, what horse do you know that likes shots and vets? Third, once the drug is administered the horse colapses often violetly smacking his head on the trailer wall. While the horse is technically dead it is tramatic for the person holding the horse. Forth, transporting the horse to the dump. I will do just about anything for CBER but I WILL NOT HAVE DEAD HORSES IN MY TRAILER period. Fifth, disposing of the body at the dump. I have not taken a horse to the dump as no equine friend of mine is going to rot with yesterdays trash, but that is just my opinion.
Last time I witnessed a horse put down by Euthanol the horse did not die with the usual dosage and the horse was flopping around in the trailer. I REFUSE TO WITNESS THAT AGAIN.
This is my opinion and I stick by it as do most CBER volunteers do, because our options are not ideal. If someone wants their horse put down in another way I am happy to supply the vet, haulers and the dumps information but I will not assist in any other way.
Thanks for your time and eyes,
Samwww.alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Columbia_Basin_Equine_Rescue
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Post by patinwyoming on Jan 9, 2009 21:08:04 GMT -5
There was an answer by Sam in a thread. I think it was on ABR under CBER as a rescue. The FOB's got to ask questions. I was never sure who answering them if it was Sam or the BOD or someone appointed to answer. In that response she said since this keeps coming up all the time and poeple keep asking she will tell what really happened to them once and for all and she won't talk about it again. It doesn't say really "why" they were shot except that they were so both attached to each other they could not be separated. A home could not be found for two horses to go to? But she said they were separated and each taken out somewhere on a place to spearate spots and given a tranquilizer and they lazily ate grain and then a bullet was put to the back of their heads. She said it is better that way because they do not know what is coming. With a vet they smell something coming and get upset. But to me the very saddest part was that in the end they were not together. I know this could be me attaching human emotions to horses but I can just imagine both of them having gone through tragedy and trama in their lives and bonding to each other as comfort. They must have be so attached and even had horse love for each other because she said they could not be separated and screamed if they were. So why then separate them and then they died without each other. Maybe so one would not witness the other dying? I cannot imagine them being calm and lazily eating their grain even tranquilized, and who but a vet can do that? if they had been hauled separately somewhere? That does not make sense to me. But you can write on the internet anything you want. There is probably only one or two people who know what happened. The person who loaded them up and took them out and another person who shot them or the person who loaded them up and took them back to the feedlot. After reading so much about CBER's real motives for what they are doing I am not sure I could believe they were shot if money could have been made off of them in any way. Maybe Tash saw a check from the feedlot as payment or something?
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Post by patinwyoming on Jan 9, 2009 21:12:17 GMT -5
Whoa, we posted just a few minutes apart. That is the letter I was talking about too. I tried to delete mine but it is disabled.
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 9, 2009 23:11:51 GMT -5
Yes, Lavender and Meadow were the last straw for me too. I was one of the people who paid to have these horses pulled. I asked Deb Logstrom, their placement specialist, about them several times. No reply.
Their excuse for executing these two horses is so lame. Blah, blah, blah is all I hear. The REAL reason is that Deb did not want to take care of them anymore because the QT funds had run out. So they made up a reason to get rid of them. Sam said this, Deb said that. Whatever. In the end the two horses died. Without even the slightest effort on their behalf to find them a home. As far as I know, not one person who contributed to their bail was notified of the urgent need for a home for them. The big mistake they made was they thought no one cared about these two old mares. WRONG. I cared.
As far as I am concerned, any good CBER ever did is overshadowed by their reckless disregard for the horses lives. And the was they disrespect the people who contributed money and time to them.
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Post by jenm on Jan 10, 2009 0:42:58 GMT -5
You all will not be surprised to learn that when the whole issue of Lavender and Meadow came to light, Sam's first thought was to contact a vet and have fake receipts made showing fees were paid for euthenasia.
This is not a rumor, I know this first hand.
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Post by greysquirrel on Jan 10, 2009 4:00:47 GMT -5
I was the one who asked about Lavender and Meadow on the CBEr wiki on the Alex Brown board. I had this really bad feeling about those two horses and knew if I started a thread on that board asking about them I would be slammed. So, I followed the rules and asked on the wiki and didn't get an answer.
Later I noticed CBEr had added that they had been humanely put down (or something to that effect), that's when I started that thread about Lavender and Meadow being euthanized. Well, all hell broke out after that. I coudn't believe the posts, threats and hate mail I received (you know who you are). It was like some kind of cult.
All the bad things I knew CBEr had done over the years yet I was still shocked over what happened with those two mares.
The CBEr board showed Lavender and Meadow being adopted by a DJ in Forks, WA. Who is DJ? And who put that on there?
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Post by greysquirrel on Jan 10, 2009 4:03:16 GMT -5
Oh, one more question. Who used to post for Sam on the AB board? I know it wasn't always Sam. Who remembers the post where "Sam" referred to herself in the third person??
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Post by greysquirrel on Jan 10, 2009 4:23:32 GMT -5
Okay. I'm going to add this and then go to bed. Those of you who posted all of those threats and lies to me (and others) on the AB board (re: Lavender and Meadow) when the whole time you knew the truth! You blatantly LIED to everybody and threatened me and the others searching for the truth. I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Period. Who wants to explain "The List"? (yes, I'm allergic to cats but rescue them anyway).  |
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 10, 2009 12:27:42 GMT -5
You all will not be surprised to learn that when the whole issue of Lavender and Meadow came to light, Sam's first thought was to contact a vet and have fake receipts made showing fees were paid for euthenasia. This is not a rumor, I know this first hand. It just keeps getting better and better. |
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 10, 2009 14:07:22 GMT -5
The thing about this is that we were told a story by Sam of what happened... and we believed it. No one knew differently until much later when we found things out on our own. Sam tells you the story that you want to hear and you believe it. That is why I don't see how a change in BOD is going to make a darn bit of difference until Sam is no longer involved.
BTW, Jen. She also told me about having the vet make out false Euthanasia reports. She called the vet and the vet reluctantly agreed to do it. A female vet from Maple Way... Sam told me her name but I do not remember it at this point.
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Post by rhythmbeads on Jan 10, 2009 15:03:33 GMT -5
Only Mapleway vet I ever remember being mentioned was Michelle Beaunaux...
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Post by jenm on Jan 10, 2009 17:31:42 GMT -5
Only Mapleway vet I ever remember being mentioned was Michelle Beaunaux... I believe that's who it was because at that point, Sam had pretty much severed ties with Mapleway although I don't know why. |
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Post by jenm on Jan 10, 2009 17:32:51 GMT -5
The thing about this is that we were told a story by Sam of what happened... and we believed it. No one knew differently until much later when we found things out on our own. Sam tells you the story that you want to hear and you believe it. That is why I don't see how a change in BOD is going to make a darn bit of difference until Sam is no longer involved. BTW, Jen. She also told me about having the vet make out false Euthanasia reports. She called the vet and the vet reluctantly agreed to do it. A female vet from Maple Way... Sam told me her name but I do not remember it at this point. Yup, Tash is right. Sam told each of us a story then it was up to us to put the pieces together and compare notes. |
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Post by beckybee on Jan 10, 2009 17:39:15 GMT -5
So were they shot or slaughtered?
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Post by michelle on Jan 10, 2009 18:01:06 GMT -5
So were they shot or slaughtered? As a former volunteer and faux bod, my first hand account answer is "I don't know". What didn't add up for me was that Sam said Wayne charged $150/horse to "put them down". They both had the same story, that Wayne picked up 4 horses that day: Meadow, Lavender, Vesper, and Dandelion. Deb (like Sam) was never one to let a payday slip by. To my knowledge, she never requested that $600 that Wayne would have charged. Sam never claimed she had to pay it, or demanded anyone fundraise for it. The explanations could be: A. Wayne puts down horses for free out of the goodness of his heart, without even requesting gas money, even though Sam says he charges cber $150. B. They were sold or given to Wayne, for Wayne to either ship to slaughter or resell. We all know he didn't resell Lavender and Meadow. |
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Post by beckybee on Jan 10, 2009 18:30:30 GMT -5
So who "discovered" they had been shot?
I figured Sam & Deb gave horses to Wayne all the time. For one, I was interested in Applejax and was told that she was being given to Wayne's son. I forget where I was told that they gave him the ones that sat in QT too long and he would do retraining and resell. It made sense to me at the time, because it saved CBER the cost of maintaining them. That was in 2007 sometime.
It would make sense if he shot some for free in exchange for getting free horses to ride, train and/or use as breeding stock.
Sam's story of having a vet come out and sedate the mares before being shot didn't make sense. If you've paid to have the vet out to sedate, what's the point of shooting? If you shoot, you don't have to bury the horse (if your property is big enough), if they are pumped full of chemicals you have to bury or take to landfill.
I think Sam just shuffled horses off to Wayne and it was a "don't ask, don't tell - wink wink" situation. He picked through the ones he wanted then shot, resold or sold the rest to slaughter. That way Sam was able to maintain appearances.
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Post by winter08 on Jan 10, 2009 18:40:17 GMT -5
She sold to Ollie as well. Deb Logstrom knew alot about this. To her credit even though she was a part of it she did admit to her fault in it and what Sam has been up too. There are more horses than just this so there would have to ve a field with horses carcasses everywhere. The last I knew the missing horses list was over 300
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 10, 2009 19:44:04 GMT -5
She sold to Ollie as well. Deb Logstrom knew alot about this. To her credit even though she was a part of it she did admit to her fault in it and what Sam has been up too. There are more horses than just this so there would have to ve a field with horses carcasses everywhere. The last I knew the missing horses list was over 300 Please do not give her too much credit. She was the one in charge of placing Lavender and Meadow. As their placement specialist she should of been answering questions about the horses when someone inquired about them. That was her job. She admitted some of it was her fault, yes, I guess at least she had somewhat of a guilty conscience. Unlike Sam. |
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Post by beckybee on Jan 10, 2009 20:08:13 GMT -5
there would have to ve a field with horses carcasses everywhere. Didn't someone (Kirstin?) post a message from Sam about retrieving skulls from somwhere to identify "missing" horses? I guess that "somewhere" would be the field of horse carcasses. |
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 10, 2009 20:43:21 GMT -5
You would not be able to identify a horse from its skull anyway. It is not like they have dental records to compare to.
It is just creepy to think of that anyway. I would hope the the souls of the horses would haunt them.
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Post by Tockita on Jan 10, 2009 20:49:00 GMT -5
You all will not be surprised to learn that when the whole issue of Lavender and Meadow came to light, Sam's first thought was to contact a vet and have fake receipts made showing fees were paid for euthenasia. This is not a rumor, I know this first hand. Did she do it? Try to do it? or just consider it? cause .. wow .. I think I'm speechless.... I know with the Adam/Blaze thing she had reasons she wanted to not release info right away, and while I didn't agree it was best.. It really wasn't harmful other then to the continued sadness of those those grieving the loss of Adam... and I could somewhat convince myself that publicizing it and having it not come from CBER was not going to go over well. I really saw no way that them "coming back" could be made harmful to CBER.. other then just what happened.. a delayed disclosure made them look sneaky. I am really sad by the things I am hearing. I know for so many horses CBER was a good thing, and I still have to believe it when I see the horses that are safe and happy, and because of their model other rescues have started saving last chance horses. |
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Post by patinwyoming on Jan 10, 2009 21:06:22 GMT -5
A horse trader buys and sells, trades, whatever to make a buck off a horse. When I was a kid in Michigan you knew who the horse trader was. Not someone you could trust. People sold their horse to them if they were desperate and needed money or if there was something wrong with the horse. They bought horses for meat too for the Chicago zoo. The horse trader wasn't someone I liked. They were bottom of the barrel to me. So remember when someone is a horsetrader, they are not "rescuing horses" and the goal is to make money anyway they can, whether that is selling to "adopters", the feedlot, the zoo, doesn't matter to them. They just want to turn a buck. If you eat horsemeat, have no conscience to take a horse BACK to the feedlot after it's bail was paid to resell it, then I would say pretty much anything goes and nothing would suprise me anymore. You know that duck saying? If it's look like a horse trader, walks and talks and acts like a horse trader, it's probably a horse trader.
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Post by horse4life on Jan 11, 2009 15:24:55 GMT -5
"The last I knew the missing horses list was over 300 "
Weren't there a couple different people that had started a list of CBER horses and were asking who had them or if someone knew about them? I know of 3 and all have good forever homes. CBER BUNNY, CBER EL VIRA, CBER JANGLES. I remember Meadow and Lavender they were close because one of them blind and the other looked out for her and wore a bell I think. They were being fostered and were listed that they had to go together the last I remember before they were "disposed" of.
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Post by winter08 on Jan 11, 2009 16:05:18 GMT -5
Uh no I dont think they were blind and I dont think they were ever really worked with to see if their issues could be worked out. I was told they freaked whenever they were taken away from each other. I have two horses that used to do that I have put the time and effort in and they do not behave this way any longer. My horses were at Debs and if they had stayed one in particular would have been euth I am sure of it. She did not have a hired person like Sam and she did have a job common sense says there was no time put into retraining anyone.
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 11, 2009 17:06:46 GMT -5
"The last I knew the missing horses list was over 300 " Weren't there a couple different people that had started a list of CBER horses and were asking who had them or if someone knew about them? I know of 3 and all have good forever homes. CBER BUNNY, CBER EL VIRA, CBER JANGLES. I remember Meadow and Lavender they were close because one of them blind and the other looked out for her and wore a bell I think. They were being fostered and were listed that they had to go together the last I remember before they were "disposed" of. I believe you are thinking of Juliet and Tempest. Tempest was a partially blind white appy and Juliet was a chestnut mare who was her companion and eyes. They went to Hytyme. |
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Post by Kirsten on Jan 12, 2009 11:18:06 GMT -5
there would have to ve a field with horses carcasses everywhere. Didn't someone (Kirstin?) post a message from Sam about retrieving skulls from somwhere to identify "missing" horses? I guess that "somewhere" would be the field of horse carcasses. No, don't think that was me. |
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