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Post by cutiepiepmu on Feb 7, 2009 3:05:58 GMT -5
Has anyone here used or do you use Dr. Sara Owens? I am not familiar with her but am looking at a horse to potentially bring home(I know, I know!! Gonna get a KILLIN by my man!!!) And she is the vet. The horse has had a previous stifle injury, but owner doesn't have much detail - Dr. Owens is the vet so will be contacting her. Based on the small amount of info I have at this point, I think that things may be fully correctable via surgery - but not sure how experienced this vet is with lameness stuff?
Thanks!
Sara
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Post by beckybee on Feb 7, 2009 19:14:02 GMT -5
Sara,
Do you have any experience with stifle problems? There is one vet in our area that diagnoses every other lameness issue as a stifle problem. He has done quite a few of the surgeries - his method of choice is to slice the ligaments longitudinally, and the resulting scar tissue "swells" the ligaments so they no longer "catch" on the condyle. He said they used to slice the center ligament and sometimes still does injections into the joint.
I did a lot of research when Manny was diagnosed with stifle problems. I'm glad I didn't have the stifle surgery on him. It turned out that his lameness was due to another issue and his stifle "problems" (if any) were secondary and were resolved by 24x7 turnout.
How old is the horse? If young, the developmental kind of stifle problems can often be turned around with exercise. Heidi (halfwayhome) has some experience with this and gave me an exercise regimen (lots of trotting, starting on flat). If this is the case, I would hold off on surgery as a last resort. The vets like to say the horses are "fine" after the surgery, but I'm always skeptical. The 2 horses locally that I know that actually had the surgery are still lame - whether this was due to the surgery or because the stifle surgery didn't correct the real proble is up to debate.
Are the stifle problems for sure from an injury? From what I've read, I don't think that stifle surgery is as successful in that case. As you know, their stifle is their knee. As I am quickly coming up on 40, I am beginning to really appreciate the complexity of this particular joint. It's a huge can of worms!
If the vet can't tell you EXACTLY what the problem is with the stifle, I would definitely get a second opinion from a vet you know and trust. Have you seen the horse? Is the stifle locking or is it a lameness issue? Have they done xrays, ultrasounds, etc?
I'm sure I haven't said anything you don't know. I would just caution you to be leery of getting a horse that is full grown with lameness attributed to the stifle joint (if that's the case). It may end up being a VERY expensive diagnostic process and potentially uncorrectable.
Unlike the horse's current owner, I know you will know all their is to know before before taking any vet's word for it! Good Luck!
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Feb 8, 2009 3:32:48 GMT -5
Howdy howdy - I have seen the x-rays as of tonight, but no MRI was ever done so seeing soft tissue structure isn't an option yet. BUT - from what I can see on the x-rays thsi is a pretty BAD situation. It appears that the actual bone was cracked and slightly displaced and based on teh x-rays it looks like the knee cap is now offset to the inside - most likely indicating other soft tissue problems. The horse is not a kid - he is 11 and a draft. The crack is in the upper part of the bone, not the part next to the knee cap itself, but it is hard to tell a ton. My best guess looking at the pictures is what I described. Obviously because of the amount of meat around that area, xrays are not always perfect. The other thing that was pretty obvious to me looking the xrays is that there are OCD areas within the joint. Obviously, if they hadn't caused issue they woudn't have been corrected. BUT, my concern now - since to me(not being an expert in orthopedics) is that it should have had surgical treatment initially, rather than the wait and see approach - is that with the OCD area now being loose, along with the other damage, that not only is it most likely not a good canidate for surgery, but the chances of serious arthritic changes are a good possibility. PLUS - if there are OCD areas in this stifle area, odds are, there are areas in the other stifle as well. All in all I am not feeling overly positive about this kids chance for a pain free future....  I had thought that if I could invest the time and money into this guy and have him as a good flat and trail sound mount it might be the right thing to do.... But, alas.... I think i would be set up for failure and heart break. i wish I could help them all...... I am going to talk to the owners about my thoughts.... I know that they are hopeful, so maybe they can take him to a specialist who might have some other ideas..... |
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Post by beckybee on Feb 8, 2009 17:50:53 GMT -5
oh, crap - doesn't sound good for this guy. How the heck did the owners get the idea that his problem would be correctable via surgery? Yeah the usual "stifle problem" (i.e. the patella sticking) is a relatively easy surgery, but that knee sounds like a mess. Have you talked to the vet yet? Do you know how long it's been since the injury occured? Are the xrays from the time of injury or are they current? Sounds like the owners need some hand holding. Questions and decisions that may seem obvious to you aren't that obvious to others.
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Feb 9, 2009 3:01:17 GMT -5
Well - honestly the owners didn't really suggest it might be correctable via surgery - it was more my thought after talking with them. The wife hadn't really be there much throguh all this and has let the husband and the trainer make the decisions. I contacted the vets office as a fellow doctor(knew that PhD would pay off eventually lol!) and requested copies of tests/xrays - so no, haven't chatted directly with the vet yet. Had a chance to review the x-rays myself. Not positive how long it has been since the injury but based on the info I have it has been about 6 months or so. They didn't date the xrays when they forwarded them, so I need to verify when they were from. Plus, being the area that it is in, xrays don't always show as clearly as we might want.
I know that owners need to find this guy a home - and from my understanding he is ok being a pasture pet?? Although, I can't really see how based on what I saw in the test results. So - will verify more and then decide. After talkign with hubby though, I think it is obvious that we are not in a position to take this kid on right now.
Sara
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I had thought that if I could invest the time and money into this guy and have him as a good flat and trail sound mount it might be the right thing to do.... But, alas.... I think i would be set up for failure and heart break. i wish I could help them all...... I am going to talk to the owners about my thoughts....