|
Post by chatty on Jan 18, 2007 18:54:55 GMT -5
maloneyd I sent a e-mail to Mr. Mink..Asking him to work with one or all rescue groups for what will be the best for the horses...Yah I through in the family name just to make sure he woudn't close his mind to my e-mail...Will see what happens chatty
|
|
|
Post by maloney on Jan 18, 2007 21:31:58 GMT -5
Chatty, That was extremly generous of you. Thank you very much, I really appreciate it. I have a lot of concern for these horses. Thank you!!!!
|
|
|
Post by kidznhorses on Jan 18, 2007 22:02:50 GMT -5
Wedgie... Do you live in the Yakima, WA area? Have you ever seen the condition these horses are in? Malnourished and deformed from absolutely NO herd management. I've seen first hand what these horses look like, and it's not a pretty sight. Did you read halfwayhome's comments. Like me, she lives in the Yakima area and knows what those horses go through. I'll repost her comments for you so you can read it again. This has nothing to do with racism. We are here for the horses.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The bottom line is that the rez people, for the most part, do not really care where the horses go as long as they get their blood money. That is why they sent a few semi truck loads to the FLO last year, mostly ungelded stallions, mares and pregnant mares and foals, it was the worst, most disgusting mess I have ever seen, those poor babies getting run over, the stallions all fighting for territory because there wasn't enough room, so very wild and scared that a normal fence would not have held them, beaten up and injured by the round up, truck ride and each other. These "chases" are also bad, they run horses into the ground that they are riding chasing them in as well as using 4wheelers, and trucks and whatever else, it is barbaric and because its on the reservation, any state or US rules do not apply. We saw one horse brought back to the lot owner that was used to run wild horses in and he had been ridden for 3 days with no feed or water provided- he had lost a ton of weight and was crippled. one guy came to the lot and purposefully BOUGHT a draft colt from the FLO to turn out to cross breed with the wild horses to get more wild horses, only bigger and meatier...so yeah, they are all about the money, its not tradition or good management, if they would have had that , there wouldn't be the problem as it exists now, the average person cannot handle these horses and shamefully, most will end up going to slaughter, you can bet on it. The few that do get "adopted" will be a drop in the bucket, and if you have driven around the rez like I have and seen the horses crammed into little corrals and starving, you wouldn't really call that an adoption or a true "horse person".
the person "wedgie" referred to in this post is actually Synthia-Equine Switzerland, who is now posting under the Synthia name...
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 18, 2007 22:36:58 GMT -5
Hi kidznhorses..my house is ringing tonight with "Yah thats true" and "No way in h__l" The old braves blood is boiling..Not me, Bob's... Let us all work together, save some horses and stop throughing horse sh_t....The Yakima Nation and rescue groups..The people, us horse lovers, and the tribal elders...
DO I SEE ANY HANDS...................................chatty
|
|
|
Post by Tockita on Jan 18, 2007 22:43:12 GMT -5
While I admit there are a few posts I would rather not see here, they do remind us that people often see the same situation quite differently, and how easy it is for us to judge someone else based on our own expectations.
It's far better to move beyond our expectations and try to view life/stuff from many points of view. For those of you who are having trouble understanding this please read The Phantom Tollbooth it will remind you of these and many other good life lessons.
I see that the Yakima's are out counting the herd and offering some for adoption. I find that they are looking into herd management and since I am sure they could just sell horses to kill dealers, they are trying to adopt them out. I don't recall seeing that there was or wasn't a contract, just who to contact if interested in adopting, also that they are offering to halter and/saddle train the horses if the adopter chooses that option.
The most offensive comments I will just chalk up to ignorance and poor upbringing, and would like to express a sincere desire that each of us make a commitment that we will do our part to remove such hatefulness from the next generation.
|
|
|
Post by gratefulknits on Jan 19, 2007 10:59:04 GMT -5
The most offensive comments I will just chalk up to ignorance and poor upbringing, and would like to express a sincere desire that each of us make a commitment that we will do our part to remove such hatefulness from the next generation. ... or perhaps we can chalk them up to passionate (but not necessarily thoroughly considered) responses to a very painful situation. I believe that most people really are well-intentioned, but sometimes we let our passions override our best behaviour. I know I have been "guilty" of that myself on MANY occasions!
|
|
|
Post by cybercat on Jan 19, 2007 13:20:43 GMT -5
The one comment that I want to make is that when someone comes along and reads something a few days after the initial actual postings, it sometimes "reads" differently.....
Our person was upset at the "in your face response" from the "official"...and not necessarily inciting riot...when a conversation is taking place on the board at current time, we don't always consider how someone else might view what is said, especially when the new member doesn't already know us....it DOES make a difference to know the background and relationships that we have developed over the years on these boards...we "talk" more buddy-buddy with each other than on many other sites...and actually meet each other and do things together so we feel we can discuss things more freely... I'm not necessarily condoning what was said, but recognizing the passion, frustration and anger involved in this complicated issue.
|
|
|
Post by gratefulknits on Jan 19, 2007 13:55:51 GMT -5
Exactly!
|
|
|
Post by maloney on Jan 19, 2007 15:04:54 GMT -5
Nice comment cybercat. Very, very true. I think we do talk buddy-buddy and others can read it as something very different. I know the opinions of those who have seen the Reservation horses in terrible condition, including myself and I was comfortable in that time voicing my opinion. Almost 2 years later, I still find it hard to get those horrific images of suffering horses out of my head..... .....I'm sorry that I can't forgive and forget yet. Maybe I can when I see these particular Reservation horses find good loving homes. As for evidence of what they plan to do with these horses "Biologists and technicians of the Yakama Nation Wildlife Management Program are now attempting to capture wild horses that will be relocated, sold, or adopted by interested individuals."www.angelfire.com/trek/wildhorses/I think we all know what "sold" means.......... EDITED to add that on that website there are pictures of the Yakama tribe chasing the horses from the hlicopter and from horse-back (which is kinda pretty), catching them, dragging one to the ground and casterating a stallion. I was hoping to see them just dart it with sedation.....but i guess not....
|
|
|
Post by Synthia - Equine Switzerland on Jan 19, 2007 17:35:03 GMT -5
kidznhorses, I am not even going to go into where I live, my ethnic background, or my personal experiences with anyone on any board...I have seen all too well what that leads to. I made a simple statement that there are comments on this thread that seem to have racial overtones and are not too nice. If the purpose of this board is to want people to stay and help those type of comments will not assist you in anyway-it was an observation nothing more. Then to have you jump my case for making that observation is another reason that people would come here and leave. I don't think that it was nessecary to talk ugly about any group of people....the issue is the horses and those same conditions exist on land owned by the US government. People should be working together to help, but speaking ugly about a group only serves to put people off. JMHO
|
|
|
Post by TashGaia on Jan 19, 2007 19:29:18 GMT -5
So.... any ideas on how to help these horses, improve the situation, or something along those lines?
|
|
|
Post by maloney on Jan 19, 2007 21:40:09 GMT -5
Chatty and I have been talking. She is working with tribe members at this time via e-mail- because she's really good at it! We are trying to work something out where horses rescues and volunteers can come in to the reservation and assist in placing the horses. Nothing officaly yet, but they are cooperating so far. Any other assistance is appreciated. Updates coming soon....
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 22, 2007 16:01:31 GMT -5
Hi ..Thought I'd up date you..NO NEWS ...It's monday and may have some thing tomorrow... NOW- I'd like any or all of you to e-mail me of what you'd like to be done, as in branding contracts ect. If I'm going to be the voice of you all..I need to know what you would like, but remember I work on a give and take bases...Get the horses good homes...Chatty r2chpbob@aol.com 2R-K Robert, Rachelle, Kathryn
|
|
|
Post by tfrancis on Jan 22, 2007 18:01:28 GMT -5
Do they have a catch pen set up for the horses? I think it would sure be easier to get adopters if they can put pics on the website for potential adopters to view. Something like the BLM site.
Maybe they already do and I just missed the link on the website.
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 22, 2007 22:52:45 GMT -5
Hi tfrancis Looked through the pic's, found one with horses in a catch pen...But if you read the e-mail from the tribal member, they say something about the 100.00 cover cost of........plus transportation.....Will do some checking...Thanks for asking....Chatty
|
|
|
Post by dcsmmi on Jan 22, 2007 23:00:12 GMT -5
I'm assuming the $100 per horse is a big "priority" for them? The reason I ask - Fish & Wildlife (mis)manges the Sheldon herds in northern NV. I worked with them for a few years - taking loads of 10 or more and placing them. As an adoption agent - they trusted me to take them and place them - but I didn't pay for the horses. (In fact - they got to the point where they started PAYING people to TAKE them. Like I said, MISmanage. That turned into a fiasco with certain agents abused the system and later sold to slaughter. email me for specifics)
Anyway - do we know WHEN these horses need to be moved? Will they be sorted by age, gender etc? If I had enough advance notice, I may be able to take a load of these horses like I did for Sheldon. I have the facility for mustangs, have gentled quite a few and kind of have a system down. We would only take fairly young horses, no mature breeding stallions - and the young stallions would be the first to be gentled for gelding. But...again...it all depends on the timing. I'd have to move 4 or 5 horses first.
Sheldon said branding or freeze marking was too cost prohibitive - so I don't see the tribe going for it - but you never know.
I'll go back to the first post and read again - but is this being promoted now? Do they have horses in pens now? In a case like this (or with Sheldon) these smaller groups don't have the funding BLM does - so once they're gathered, the clock is ticking. They quickly run out of hay and money for care.
I'd really like to check into this......
ps- we have a Yakima mustang. Stout, rugged little guy - about 14.3 - Friesan like mane and tail.
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 23, 2007 0:39:52 GMT -5
I called in-laws in the valley and no one has heard anything about this, but they all agree...100.00 per horse justs opens the door for trouble....If the gentlemen doesn't e-mail me by Wednesday AM I do it by phone...Yes dcsmmi we need to know when and they are stout kids...
dcsmmi can you also please tell people what it takes as holding pen, ect.....If someone is thinking about adopting they need to know what their getting in to..
yes need a brake down of sexes, ages, pairs and all that good stuff...will I'll keep working on it...
r2chpbob@aol.com 2R-K Equine Robert, Rachelle, Kathryn
|
|
|
Post by dcsmmi on Jan 23, 2007 1:07:08 GMT -5
I emailed the contact guy and explained a bit about what we've done with F&W - and asked if he could provide details on the number of round ups, dates, holding facility etc. I offered to help - but I don't know what he'll come back with. I emphasized the fact that we screen and mentor potential adopters, have them sign agreements etc. SO - if they are looking for good homes - I can help. If they're looking for $$$ only.... well... he may just ignore me.
If anyone on here is considering adopting a wild one - I would strongly suggest contacting a mentor - or someone who has had a truly wild horse, full of years of instinct and the will to survive. Alot of the "state of mind" for these horses comes from how the people working the chutes will handle them. One load from Sheldon was like a herd of deer. Another was pretty calm. And every horse is different. Some are sensitive enough that if you slip on sloppy ground, (not making an intentional move toward them) they will perceive it as a threat and try to go over regular Powder River panels. That being said, they are very level headed and learn VERY quickly that you aren't there to do them harm. For my groups - I have custom built steel panels 6-7 feet tall and VERY dense and heavy. Nothing you can buy in a store.
I wouldn't want to scare anyone off. I've adopted to alot of pretty green folks - but they proved to me they had the will and the want to - and were willing and open minded enough to learn. Those people are doing better than most of the "know it all - been there done that types". Gentling and training your own wild horse is one of the most rewarding things you will EVER do. They become the most faithful, loving, trusting animals that it will truly take your breath away. Having an animal so full of fear, instinct, "flight" - turn into you and look for guidance for the first time - to truly want to be WITH you rather than run away - will make you feel like you can fly out of the pen. Just my 2 cents. =)
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 23, 2007 1:46:50 GMT -5
Thank you...just what I wanted to hear...We almost need to start a thread for handling a wild horse...chatty
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 23, 2007 15:56:28 GMT -5
ONE HORSE SAVE IS BETTER THAN NONE
Here it is...NOW understand what we're looking at here...There will never be homes for all these horse, so every horse saved is a mile stone......chatty
READ THIS WITH A OPEN MIND
via Jim Stephenson
Kathryn If you know people from some of these rescue groups please have them contact me. However I don't wish to argue about horse slaughter. We would like to adopt out as many of these animals as we can but I don't think there are eough people to adopt 2-3 thousand horses that we need to remove to restore our overgrazed rangelands. We are always open to people that wants to help us place these horses with people that will use and appreciate them. Thank you Kathryn, I can be reached by phone at (509) 949-2189.
Here it is, we have to work with them or stay out it..They don't want to talk horse slaughter and we must respect this..2-3 thousand horse is alot..
(1) follow the biggest rule: NO horse slaughter talk (2) If you can take (afford) a horse or help someone else please say so (3) work in groups, you can get more done (4) be perpaired for or help someone else ready pens for a horse(s) (5) transportion and QT aranged
Note: These horses are wild and small trailers are a big NO-NO Try to think of the ages of these horses, (sorry, my thinking) the young have a future and with this many horses we are going to have to cull many of them. Put a age limit you will take and don't let your heart rule your mind and over adopt.. If you save one, that is one less to worry about. Take care of the job to be done and don't think of the ones you leave behind. (this will be the first time I tell anyone to have tunnel vision)
Hope I covered all my thoughts e-mail me with your ideals or PM please post thoughts for everyone NO SLAUGHTER TALK NO FIGHTING NO NASTY WORDS thats all
|
|
|
Post by dcsmmi on Jan 23, 2007 21:11:05 GMT -5
I spoke to Mr. Stephenson today. (He emailed me back and gave alot of info -and asked me to call.) What we're looking at here is THOUSANDS of horses needing homes, which, frankly just don't exist. There is no doubt these horses will be slaughtered, they are aware of that, but if they are 'lectured' about it, I have no doubts they will slam the door on the whole thing and cull them all. It's crappy, yes, but until 503 passes...I don't see anything anyone can do about it. Stephenson hinted that he would put me in touch with a tribal chaser who would probably cut a discount for 'buying in bulk'. My goal is to place as many of my current residents as possible - then maybe taking a load of 10 or so of these horses this summer. Good news is, they are only gathering a few at a time because they know they can not feed them. They do have some pasture available, but not much. There are only a dozen or so in holding now. (Only 4 or 5 have been adopted since the publicity hit) Bad news - they will gather straight through foaling season, using dirt bikes and helicopters. BAD news, but it's standard practice for them. He says the majority of the 'chasers' are smart enough to let the horses set the pace, but admits there are a few who will rush them, and that WILL lead to foal deaths. (My words, not his.) Is there anyone else following this thread that may be willing/able to take any of these guys? If you get them now, be aware, you'll be getting pg mares - but you may be saving the foals life. I won't have room until this summer - so may have mare/foal combos - or weanlings. It's all up in the air right now I guess. BUT, I will probably be begging for pledges to help buy them off the Yakama lot when I'm ready. Darla
|
|
|
Post by cybercat on Jan 23, 2007 21:49:52 GMT -5
I know that you don't have much free time, Darla, but do you think you could come up with suggestions somewhat like the BLM's guidelines for facilities needed for wild horses? I would love to take one, but know I don't have the appropriate set-up for one...
What are the basics to getting ready for a wild child?
|
|
|
Post by dcsmmi on Jan 23, 2007 23:48:37 GMT -5
It's really not too difficult to get started. If it's your first wild one - I'd strongly suggest you start with a weanling, nothing older. You'll need a pen made of panels (or wood - with solid posts and the fence boards on the inside) and a shelter. Alot of people simply set up a portable stall adjacent to the gate of their round pen. Others are more creative and build stuff. NO WIRE. They just simply don't know what it is. Once you start gentling, you will be asking the horse to move, and it will take the path of least resistance - and it will do it with a speed that is directly related to how much pressure you applied. You can ask these guys to move away by squaring your shoulders and leaning your body mere inches toward them. They pick up on stuff like that. Anyone who has been run over by a domestic born, spoiled, arrogant horse with no ground manners can really appreciate that!
Ideally, you could go to a location and observe several before picking one. Look at how they read your body language. Some people do better with the more sensitive types, other are better with the "duller" ones. Neither is bad - but it will set the tone for how you move and act around it in the beginning. ie - don't chuck hay over the rail at it when it doesn't know you're there! Alot depends on how they treat them when first confined - and I stressed that to Mr. Stephenson today. (I hope he took the hint.)
I don't know everything there is to know about this stuff - and I don't want to come off that way. I have gentled a few though - and if it helps one of these guys - I'm always willing to share what works for me and what didn't. DON'T BE AFRAID TO TRY!! Seriously, if I can do it, most anyone can. My last 'starts' were done in about an hour.... pulling one from the herd, working it in different directions in the round pen, trying to establish 'draw' - and finally getting the halter on. You'll make mistakes...everyone will.. but they are extremely forgiving. AND, if a wild horse isn't responding the way you want it to...there's no excuse, it's you. You don't have to wonder what other training it's had. You have to back off, watch another video, read another book, or have a friend watch you and see if they can pick up on something you aren't catching. (Believe it or not - NON horsey people are great for this. They'll say..."aren't you doing that whatchamajigger that you aren't supposed to do the hooseywhatsit to?" It'll kill ya, and you'll want to knock them off their perch on the round pen.... but they really do catch stuff.
Come on Leanne...you know you want to..... =)
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 24, 2007 1:06:39 GMT -5
I LOVE working with these guys. They are practically a clean slate without a lot of baggage. Even the older one's. Not much different then a track horse that doesn't get handled until it's time to break them or pretty them up for the sale.
We have has several here from the Rez. and they have all turned out to be really nice little horses!
|
|
|
Post by chatty on Jan 24, 2007 2:43:50 GMT -5
I'm at working talking to everyone on my list of horse owners that has showen a interested in what I do..Hoping to have a group that would like to adopt or help another...This is North Spokane Co.,WA...If each of us work in small area groups, 2-3 horses add up..NO we can't get them all, but take a good bite in the numbers....
My list consists of people I have check out for rehoming of my kids...They have the knowlege, time (most are retired), time being the key thing with these horses.. maloneyd and dcsmmi you guys are hudinis of horse rescue....thank you
|
|
|
Post by tfrancis on Jan 24, 2007 14:15:12 GMT -5
My husband was all set to go to Palimino valley to get "Nuetiegwa". aka #8829, if he hadn't been adopted. I found a nice looking filly on the site, but he say's to find one closer to home. I would like to adopt a weanling, but would like to be able to view it before making a trip to Washington for further viewing and pickup. It may seem bad, but that's what I like about the BLM site. I know it isn't possible yet for the Rez horses. My husband has to be drawn to the horse too or he will veto the adoption. Good conformation, etc..... Anyway, my long winded point is: I might be able to take at least one if there is a way to view it first.
|
|
|
Post by dcsmmi on Jan 24, 2007 18:19:12 GMT -5
I'm working on getting Stephenson to photograph the horses as they come in. He said he really needs a PR person, he's overwhelmed and understaffed, so I offered to post pictures wherever I could to drum up some business for him. We'll see if he gets any to me....
tfrancis - if nothing else - I'm hoping to be able to take a load of youngsters later in the summer. It's a ways away, but that would be a chance for you to travel a short ways to see several. That's my goal anyway...knock on wood.
|
|
|
Post by maloney on Jan 24, 2007 19:14:21 GMT -5
Thank you everyone who has been following this thread. This is a great step in the right direction. Keep in mind, that if Mr. Stephenson asks for more help, I am also willing to help with photo posting maybe writing up a description, but I cannot be there to take pictures (I live in NJ)
|
|
|
Post by cybercat on Jan 24, 2007 20:58:55 GMT -5
I can help post pics and descriptions too...
|
|
|
Post by tfrancis on Jan 25, 2007 0:25:44 GMT -5
Thanks dcsmmi, when you get some let me know.
This may not be cost effective, or even a very good idea: could some of the braves gentle, say 10-20 youngsters then take them to an area for adoption viewing. Something similiar to BLM.
I guess it would only work if they are willing to foot the same start up costs as BLM; coggins, etc...
Just an ideal. let me know if I can help in some way.
|
|