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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Apr 5, 2008 2:55:38 GMT -5
Deb saw Waynes truck and trailer leaving Sams full of horses 3 times last week
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 5, 2008 3:46:44 GMT -5
Ok, I am sorry - I hope I am not completely dense - but who is wayne? Sara
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Post by lorsadoon on Apr 5, 2008 8:58:49 GMT -5
Wayne is the man who shot Lavender and Meadow.
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Post by outspoken on Apr 5, 2008 11:54:48 GMT -5
come on... Wayne may be a trainer, but he is also a horse killer/trader... and if $am has no money to keep the horses, who do you believe would pay Wayne to "train" them??? wake up and admit you all have been drinking the Kool-Aid far too long!!
I am disgusted, but not surprised. Many have been saying this for years... and that $am one day would shoot herself in the foot... she has!
There are so many horses everywhere who need our help, why fatten kbs pockets? oh well, it is your money after all.
I am glad to see that some of you finally see the truth... for the others still defending $am I hope you sleep well at night thinking of all the horses that went to W for "training"
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Post by agilitygal on Apr 5, 2008 11:59:11 GMT -5
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Post by earlybp on Apr 5, 2008 12:07:03 GMT -5
What? WHAT? WHAT? So, what you're saying is that CBER takes money, bails horses from Chuck, and turns around and gives them to another kill buyer? Is this what you're saying? Is she selling them to him? I've never heard this before. If he's a trainer and is training and selling them, is he buying them from her? If so, is that money going back into the business?
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Post by angelinmydreams on Apr 5, 2008 12:14:09 GMT -5
From what I heard is yes that is kinda what happens.
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Post by redhorse on Apr 5, 2008 12:26:14 GMT -5
What? WHAT? WHAT? So, what you're saying is that CBER takes money, bails horses from Chuck, and turns around and gives them to another kill buyer? Is this what you're saying? Is she selling them to him? I've never heard this before. If he's a trainer and is training and selling them, is he buying them from her? If so, is that money going back into the business? So you never heard of Meadow and Lavender? -Cherie
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Post by redhorse on Apr 5, 2008 12:43:49 GMT -5
Other than L&M, which were not resold or slaughtered, please present more proof. Ah, just curious, since the organization that was responsible for Lavender and Meadow has proven to be slightly less than transparent, what is YOUR proof that they were not resold or slaughtered? -Cherie
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Post by redhorse on Apr 5, 2008 12:47:35 GMT -5
Why can't that "source" come here, identify his/herself and relationship to CBER and just tell us what he/she actually knows? Possible Reasons: 1. In the past they have been banned for attempting to come on this BB and tell everyone what they actually know. 2. They have been threatened with lawsuits for attempting to come on this BB and tell everyone what they actually know. 3. They HAVE come on this BB and TOLD everyone what they actually know but their post has been deleted. -Cherie
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Post by bridgetah on Apr 5, 2008 12:57:38 GMT -5
It's not an issue if the horses are going to be trained and re-homed. It is an issue if they are shot or sent back into the slaughter pipeline. jessiegirl does have a point, the people who actually sent in the bail to save the horses should have been told the horses needed help before they were sold or given away to someone who is known for taking horses and shooting them. If the horses were indeed given to Wayne then an update should have been provided on their listing on the CBER website. In all fairness, someone could have come back to this board and mentioned an adoption fell through and at least given the people who care a chance to try to help the horse again. We have to remember that these are not horses that CBER bought with money they had saved up in the bank. These are horses that were bailed because people sent in money specifically to save that horse. I don't have any reason to believe they are all being shot or sent back into the slaughter pipeline. They should have given updates and/or appealed for help, but she did appeal to her BOD. It's quite possible that the decision to appeal here or anywhere else, would be a BOD decision, not Sam's. It seems that she wanted to discuss it. That email should not have been leaked. As for euthing horses - would there have been the outcry if the vet had done it? I wonder. Many people believe that euth by injection w/a vet standing by and loving people present is preferable. What they don't see is a struggling, frightened animal, what they don't hear is the cracking sound as the horse drops down. Sometimes it is quiet and calm and sometimes it is not. But, the injection method allows people to imagine a peaceful death. I've had time to imagine how I'd handle this (my filly colicked once) and I would choose a bullet. It's quick and cheap and just as loving and heartbreaking. I also believe that money does matter here and that money is best used to support the living. Horse trainers often buy and sell horses and they usually have access to potential buyers. CBER may or may not get anything from any subsequent sale, but they save on costs of caring for them and that is probably worth a lot.
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Post by halfwayhome on Apr 5, 2008 13:22:56 GMT -5
Needless to say, I was very upset to hear that a number of saved FL horses have been seen leaving the "rescue" in the last few weeks with Wayne. It has me shaking...so I made a couple calls locally. I have lived in this valley for over 25 years and I know lots of LONG TIME horse people, many who have been here their whole life. In fact one of them used to work at one of the local sale yards. While Wayne takes a few horses in to train or ride, they do not take that many at a time, and he is in fact a guy that has gone out and found horses for killer buyers, he deals with other guys beside Chuck and one they mentioned has an outlet for horses being taken to Mexico. Apparently he has continued to send horses thru this person, remember unfortunately that slaughter is not illegal and most of the "good ol boys" do not find anything wrong with it. What has my blood freezing in my veins is the fact that if these horses were sent this way thru Sam, then it is the ultimate betrayal. They were supposed to be safe and they were supposed to never have that trip to make. I mean just killing them with a bullet without telling people who saved them is bad enough, but at least its may be the lesser of 2 evils, but if they were sent to Mexico, and the profits went to the "rescue" or int to personal "pockets" then this is beyond terrible. I helped horses with cber for several years and in the time I was there, I never personally knew this to happen and if I did I would not have stood for it. Today I am finding from outside sources that Chuck has been laughing all the way to the bank and joked about it with cronies for some time now about how he has a good thing going with the rescue for income. If Wayne is training these horses, then lets see some proof, and if a horse has been said to die in QT for various reasons, lets see the vet slip on the call, because now I am very worried about the fate of the horses that had made their way to MANDATORY QT. With feed prices the way they are, Wayne is not just holding horses out of the goodness of his heart. I hope this is not what happened, but from what I am hearing from people not associated with rescue or CBER or an ax to grind, it is a distinct possibility. I am very sad as when I worked with the group, I truly truly cared about the horses and to hear this is a betrayal of what I believed in at one time too.
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Post by countrygirl on Apr 5, 2008 13:46:36 GMT -5
Does anyone know how many of the horses in QT don't have homes to go to? Who has gone to QT in the last month?? Let's start taking a count and see what can be done about finding them homes.
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Post by gsdmom on Apr 5, 2008 13:50:44 GMT -5
I love my horses so much that I can't personally imagine how anyone can send horses back to the feedlot. I think most of us feel so betrayed because we can't understand how a rescue could do this. I look at Terryn fat and happy and it makes me sick inside to think where she was. I know in my case this love for her translated into many dollars being donated to CBER. I donated far beyond what I should have when I began to have doubts. I so wanted to believe in the goodness of this rescue. It took me a long time to come to the realization that things were happening that were not in the best interests of the horses. Some people are just broken and not fixable.
Kathy
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 5, 2008 14:00:56 GMT -5
I have sent Sam back an email asking if she wants me to post her string of emails... but she has not responded.... if she does... I will. I am thinking before I share with anyone right now, as I'm not sure if it will go further then their eyes.. and not sure if that is right...
She certainly is mad at me for asking questions, and not just for asking them, specifically asking them in public, so that others were made aware that there were questions... folks, that is like writing in the editorial section of the paper, there is a reason people ask for info pubilically from public entities, they need to answer to everyone! not just in private! It's about airing the answers, not keeping it all secret.
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lisa
Groovy Groom
Posts: 27
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Post by lisa on Apr 5, 2008 14:04:48 GMT -5
Someone mentioned "Sophie" in another thread an I can't find the threads from when we were told she shipped. I want to find out who it was that said they were talking with Sam and Sam said she was begging for Sophie's life? And then we find out that Sophie never shipped and Sam wasn't even at the lot? Can anyone find Sophie's original threads?
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 5, 2008 14:51:01 GMT -5
the initial email was short, and, well... short. these are long and she goes into more detail. is it ok to post it? I was also told after I posted it that proboards says I can't... so, if you are verifying that Sam said ok, and you know for a fact that proboards says it'sok, then fine. if not, I'll wait for sam. she was rambling for pages on end...
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Post by outspoken on Apr 5, 2008 14:53:55 GMT -5
Well, if two months ago $am was saying she was going to put them down.. what has changed? nothing, still only little "profit".. so out they went to Wayne... and either south or to the reserve! Do you really think anyone will come and show proof of anything. We never had proof at the best of times... The pieces of the puzzle are fitting so well.. maybe $am will keep Catherine, of FairDinkum fame, company somewhere.. I would hope so... fraud at so many levels.
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Post by bridgetah on Apr 5, 2008 15:28:45 GMT -5
Is that the best you can do for wit?
Here's some Kool-Aid for you - I grew up in Ukiah. When Jim Jones first came to town (nearby Redwood Valley), my dad was his attorney. Several high school friends and acquaintances died in Guyana. I don't drink Kool-Aid.
Why don't you come up with something original and why don't you come up with something besides "what ifs."
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Post by calypso on Apr 5, 2008 15:31:19 GMT -5
The threads are not the appropriate place for two people to snark at each other.
Take it to pm's - that is what they are for.
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Apr 5, 2008 15:34:27 GMT -5
I agree lets respect each other for the good we all try to do and discuss the issue not each other.
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Post by Admin on Apr 5, 2008 16:19:54 GMT -5
I only want FACTS posted here. NO personal issues. This is still about the horses.
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Post by hytyme on Apr 5, 2008 16:29:37 GMT -5
If in fact, CBER is sending bailed FL horses off with Wayne (who is an admitted KB) this is not only "double dipping", but a huge SLAP in the face to those supporters who believed they helped SAVE those horses. It is with great saddness to learn the possible fate of these horses. We, as a rescue have in residence several CBER horses (including two...Iris and Vanilla Bean from the CCG incident) and would never turn our backs or betray any of them. That is not what a TRUE rescue is about. Hopefully, those with the horses' best interest at heart will turn to other venues to save the many, many horses in need. Our heartfelt sympathy is extended to so many of those who have contributed their hard-earned money and time into doing what they thought was to right.......
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lisa
Groovy Groom
Posts: 27
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Post by lisa on Apr 5, 2008 17:37:20 GMT -5
You want facts about deception? Where is the "Sophie" original threads? Those are facts swe all witnessed. Sophie shipped, Sam was at the lot begging for her life and then all of a sudden someone from the board found out Sophie didn't ship. The threads disappeared and then we were told it was all a misunderstanding? C'mon!!! Passion was passed over for a "better" deal. That's rescue?! L&M, we all know that one. Those ARE facts we all witnessed.
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Post by bridgetah on Apr 5, 2008 17:53:04 GMT -5
You want facts about deception? Where is the "Sophie" original threads? Those are facts swe all witnessed. Sophie shipped, Sam was at the lot begging for her life and then all of a sudden someone from the board found out Sophie didn't ship. The threads disappeared and then we were told it was all a misunderstanding? C'mon!!! Passion was passed over for a "better" deal. That's rescue?! L&M, we all know that one. Those ARE facts we all witnessed. I didn't pay much attention to Sophie, but if she shipped, so be it. Who is the "someone from the board" that found out that she didn't ship? Why doesn't that person come here and tell us all what she knows? Horses ship all the time, so what in particular we are supposed to be angry about? As for Passion, I don't know the full story but it is not unusual for rescues to take the animals most likely to be placed. Triage is a big part of it. And, what about the horse that replaced her? Was that horse not worthy of life? Are you angry that he/she lived? As for L&M, I didn't agree w/that, but it wasn't my decision. And, the FOBs should have had a chance to rescue her. Still, euthanasia is also a part of rescue life and, again, it was not my decision.
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lisa
Groovy Groom
Posts: 27
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Post by lisa on Apr 5, 2008 18:12:02 GMT -5
Go read the Sophie threads IF you can find them. We were told Sam was at the lot begging for Sophie's life. And that Chuck shipped her anyway. That the big mean Chuck bullied Sam and she begged for Sophie's life. Sophie NEVER shipped. Get it? I don't think you do. It took three days or so before we were told it was a "misunderstanding" and Sam was never at the lot.
Passion had her bail raised. Her QT raised. She went through the "triage." Sam decided last minute to get other horses. Even though the money had been raised for Passion. Passion had already been put on CBER's website. I guess she didn't deserve to live even if people on this board sent the money in FOR HER.
And I think all those people were banned because they were trying to tell us what they found out, so they were banned.
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Post by bridgetah on Apr 5, 2008 18:23:40 GMT -5
Go read the Sophie threads IF you can find them. We were told Sam was at the lot begging for Sophie's life. And that Chuck shipped her anyway. That the big mean Chuck bullied Sam and she begged for Sophie's life. Sophie NEVER shipped. Get it? I don't think you do. It took three days or so before we were told it was a "misunderstanding" and Sam was never at the lot. Passion had her bail raised. Her QT raised. She went through the "triage." Sam decided last minute to get other horses. Even though the money had been raised for Passion. Passion had already been put on CBER's website. I guess she didn't deserve to live even if people on this board sent the money in FOR HER. And I think all those people were banned because they were trying to tell us what they found out, so they were banned. So, the problem is that Sophie lived? Or, is it that she didn't ship? As for Passion, was the money in hand or just pledged? If it was in hand, Sam should not have made the switch. If the money was pledged but not in hand, then she has every right to make that switch based on what she thinks can most easily be placed, especially if it were an immediate decision. Triage (and it is triage, not "triage") is an inevitable part of rescue. None of this adds up to fraud.
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lisa
Groovy Groom
Posts: 27
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Post by lisa on Apr 5, 2008 18:25:59 GMT -5
You really don't get it do you! The problem is we were being manipulated by the "threat" of the big bad Chuck because money wasn't coming in fast enough. WE were lied to about Sophie. It was not a misunderstanding. To post that you are "on the phone" with Sam and Sophie is shipping and Sam is begging for her life and then to post....oooops, Sam wasn't at the lot only after someone calls you on it? What would you call that if not manipulation? I gotta take a break for a bit. This is too much.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 5, 2008 20:58:02 GMT -5
I posted the requested emails 3K, not sure why you think I'm hiding something that everyone might think clears this all up from Sam, but there they are. had to clear it with Sam first. enjoy
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Apr 5, 2008 21:27:42 GMT -5
In no way am I saying that I am not grateful my horses were saved but I cant condone lying and deceit. Cozumel was never adopted it was all fake except the part where he was euth'd. Doesnt that scare u a lil that such an elaborate LIE was told to all of us. Doesnt it scare u that CBER volunteers are saying there are missing horses?!! Passion did have an adopter and money it was just used for more saleable horses. Those horses werent adopted they were SOLD as in no adoption contract no follow up...SOLD. I am not a Sam hater I volunteered I defended and now I know I was wrong. Its not ok to be profiting off horses and us. Where are the 80 horses with no adopters listed where is a paper trail for where they went. Here is also a big question where is the money that was supposed to pay for Wayne to euth the horse, shouldnt there be a paper trail? Some designation somewhere?
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