mothergoose
Groovy Groom
Together we can make a difference!
Posts: 33
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Post by mothergoose on Apr 1, 2008 1:12:01 GMT -5
I WAS BROWSING THE INTERNET ON CRAIGSLIST AND SAW THIS MESSAGE... WHAT IS HAPPENING? ANYONE KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE? IS THIS SAM POSTING OR AN ANGRY CBERHATER?
C-B-E-R a real rescue?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to: see below Date: 2008-03-31, 9:09PM PDT
NOT ACCORDING TO THIS EMAIL. THE PRESIDENT OF C-B-E-R WANTS MONEY OR THE HORSES WILL BE PUT DOWN?
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:11 PM Subject: FEB 1 DEADLINE Hi All,
Today reality struck me, I am going under and it seems so is CBER. I AM IN A PANIC!
If CBER shut down tomorrow I would be stuck paying off the CBER line of credit which right now is $20,000.
I have a personal line of credit that I used for farm improvements, ie electric for the rescue, pay off for the trailer, pay off the tractor, fencing, panels, shelters......... that is at $8,000. I owe Kelly for 14 tons of hay, I owe Payroll taxes of $3,100, I am supporting 11 CBER horse not to mention mine and I can not go on at this rate.
CBER has two options to raise the money for the outstanding board ($3,545) or I am going to have to have these horses put down. That is the immediate fix then we have to tackle the LOC. I am going in the whole and it is getting bigger daily.
20,000 8,000 3,100 1,400 32,500 owed
THis figure does not include Feb bills which I do not have the money for either. I have $7 dollars in my personal checking account, and $1,000+ in the farm account.
I am at a loss as to what to do but there needs to be some dramatic changes and fast. The horses that do not have board covered have till 2/1/08 or they are going to have to go.
I am so sorry for this sad news but I can not endure such debt and I better get out now before I am responsible for even more.
Thanks,
Sam
Location: Yakima it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 625959246
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Post by caryn on Apr 1, 2008 1:53:44 GMT -5
Quote, just didn't want to quote the whole thing.. The horses that do not have board covered have till 2/1/08 or they are going to have to go.
Ummmm, February 1st was a while ago. I'll copy and send this to Sam. Mothergoose, did you email her for confirmation?
MTA: never heard any of this before, so am going with "not true" while awaiting a reply from Sam.
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mothergoose
Groovy Groom
Together we can make a difference!
Posts: 33
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Post by mothergoose on Apr 1, 2008 3:09:00 GMT -5
Thank you :0) I figured someone would be able to clear this up.
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Post by TashGaia on Apr 1, 2008 9:05:32 GMT -5
The email is real, but none of those horses were put down.
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Post by afinenettle on Apr 1, 2008 10:42:03 GMT -5
But Tash....why wouldnt Sam report that here, really. I know I dont know all the facts but I kinda feel for her situation. She is in over her head like many rescues, trying to save more horses than is possible as well as taking alot of critisism for charging too much.
And this does relate to the question on the board about triage...many horses WILL HAVE TO BE PUT DOWN in this climate, esp if the national bill goes through. And that will be better for them than slaughter.
I think the best thing that rescue does is distribute free or nearly free horses; this DOES impact the breeders - you can tell by how bitterly they complain about it. I feel its necessary to step up the outreach to the horse community and have even better places for folks to look for horses that need homes in their own communities. Every community needs an online bulletin board for horse rehoming.
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Post by agilitygal on Apr 1, 2008 11:06:32 GMT -5
If this is for real, then something needs to be done to help. We all want to save horses' lives but if the rescue can't support the ones they have with the overhead, then it will all be in vain as the rescue closes down.
IF there is a problem, then logic says that this board is the place that it needs to be addressed and a plan of action put into place. If this board has no importance in the scheme of things with the CBER officials, then why are we doing this? There are other rescues who do communicate with their supporters and don't let things get so far out of balance.
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Post by jessiegirl1981 on Apr 1, 2008 11:13:38 GMT -5
I know rescues are having trouble but why a private email? Why shouldnt the rest of us been aware of the situation? Seems a bit like emotional blackmail to me
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Post by sam on Apr 1, 2008 13:00:44 GMT -5
Hi All,
Yes, finances were a huge concern this winter. CBER survives month by month relying on the the CBER fee of $100 - yes there is $150 added (if the horse is not ridden, if the horses is ridden a ride fee is added as well) $100 goes to CBER, $50 goes to retail sales tax (yes even though we are a 501 we still have to pay retail sales tax). As we all know $100 does not go far these days.
This winter adoptions were down and I was supporting a lot of CBER horses (12). Finances were tough and I was having trouble supporting so many horses with no home offers or adoptions - there was no light at the end of the tunnel and the BOD and volunteers needed to be aware of the situation. Putting horses down is the last choice and not done quickly however CBER nor I can afford to support horses forever. I was not ready to put anyone down just trying to get everyone's attention within CBER as to how serious the matter at hand was. Too bad someone leaked it. However something needs to be done about CBER supported horses because in all reality they are not CBER supported they are Camelot supported and the financial stress I endure is not fair. The GREAT news is that GC homes were found for all of them.
This e-mail was sent to the BOD's and volunteers strictly to come up with a solution to home the horses who adoptions had fallen through. It was leaked to the general population which was low as all the issues were to be discussed and decisions and solutions were to figured out before presenting anything to the boards.
Sam
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Post by agilitygal on Apr 1, 2008 13:21:16 GMT -5
What is a GC home?
Well, ok. Sounds like things are under control again. . .or. . .are they? What expenses are left?
Has the hay bill been paid off? If not, how much is it?
A suggestion: When there is an outstanding bill. . .such as hay. . .such as unpaid board for horses waiting to leave due to transportation issues. . .such as additional facilities improvement. . .then there should be a funds drive to pay it down.
CBER, you need a funds drive person and we need to know. . .before it becomes a panic situation. One issue at a time is reasonable in my opinion. Everything together at once would be a bit overwhelming to our pocketbooks, I think. . .just as it is to yours.
With a little more structure and specific communication and follow through, I think these issues could be greatly reduced if not eliminated.
It's unfortunate that things get leaked. But, once in print, it's out there for the taking, I guess. Better to address and present the issues calmly and matter-of-factly and ask for additional support. Different people have different objectives. . .and, unfortunately, they are not always in the horses' best interests.
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Post by caryn on Apr 1, 2008 13:22:40 GMT -5
I think GC means "gift contract"
MTA: Yup, we do need a fundraiser volunteer!!! Great suggestion.
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Post by ebony07 on Apr 1, 2008 13:28:45 GMT -5
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Post by sam on Apr 1, 2008 13:36:16 GMT -5
You are right - I am more then happy to let people know problems that was what I was trying to do with the volunteers and BOD's too bad people can see the difference between discussing problems and trying to find solutions. However I can not be expected to go bankrupt. People need to understand that one person (me) can not support all the CBER adoptions that fall through.
Also if I am not mistaken it was posted that I was supporting 12 CBER horses and one or two people helped out. What needs to happen in that if a horse is bailed by a group and the adoption falls through that group needs to be responsible for that horse till it is placed not drop the ball once the horses is off the lot.
Sam
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Post by MustangAppy on Apr 1, 2008 13:55:42 GMT -5
I think it would help a lot to have someone who was dedicated just to fund-raising. That is the toughest part of being a rescue, not enough money. We deal with it ourselves with the Malamutes rescue I run, and it is no where near the scale CBER and other equine rescues have to handle. Maybe we could at least have a brainstorming session about fund-raising ideas? I for one would like to see if maybe a local car deal would donate a nice pre-owned high gas mileage vehicle for raffle. $25 a ticket, or 3 for $60. Advertise it on the web site with a Pay Pal button, in the papers, in flyers. Make the tax and title the responsibility of the new owner, so that doesn't cut into the profits. Might even be able to get a locally owned copy center or graphics place to sponsor the printing of the flyers.
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Post by carly1964 on Apr 1, 2008 14:08:58 GMT -5
Sam, I don't understand. In the email, you are asking for donations to cover a line of credit on the farm for farm improvements, money to pay off the trailer, and you mention you are supporting CBER horses and your own personal horses. Besides the support of the CBER horses, are these CBER expenses? I thought I read somewhere that CBER didn't own a trailer, and if Camelot is being run as a business, wouldn't the business pay for the farm expenses and payroll taxes? I'm just confused by what you said.
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Post by caryn on Apr 1, 2008 14:58:59 GMT -5
Sam, I don't understand. In the email, you are asking for donations to cover a line of credit on the farm for farm improvements, money to pay off the trailer, and you mention you are supporting CBER horses and your own personal horses. Besides the support of the CBER horses, are these CBER expenses? I thought I read somewhere that CBER didn't own a trailer, and if Camelot is being run as a business, wouldn't the business pay for the farm expenses and payroll taxes? I'm just confused by what you said. carly, I didn't read it as Sam asking for donations for her personal business. She was emphasizing that she, personally does not have the funds to continue covering delinquent board and on-going support for the CBER horses mentioned in the email. Obviously, Sam footing the bill when adoptions fall through is not fair, nor is it sustainable.
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Post by carly1964 on Apr 1, 2008 15:20:24 GMT -5
Ok, maybe I read it wrong. From the way it was worded though, it sounded like Sam is combining the expenses of Camelot and CBER, and was requesting donations to cover all of it.
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Post by carly1964 on Apr 1, 2008 15:27:04 GMT -5
But, doesn't Sam get paid for using her trailer in the form of hauling fees tacked on to the horses, and she gets paid for the horses staying at Camelot? Or am I mistaken? Just trying to figure this out. Well I guess she could if CBER horses don't use the trailer or the new pastures she had to section off for. Yep - don't need donations then.
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Post by Admin on Apr 1, 2008 15:33:01 GMT -5
Threatening to put a horse down that is healthy to receive donations is wrong, let alone actually doing it! Especially after they were bailed by others.
To my knowledge none of the people who bailed these horses were notified asking for help.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 1, 2008 15:45:13 GMT -5
I agree PEC. Was the expectation that the volunteers raise the money? If there was fundraising need, why didn't the word get sent to the donors? and I understand the board... but that isn't the 'cost'... and the expenses except for the LOC seem to be personal... am I reading that right?
Sounds like a financial overhaul is in need... doesn't the $100 per horse 'fee' go to cover those horses that CBER is sponsoring at Sam's? that would pay her costs for feed... at 1000 plus horses adopted last year... and only 11 being sponsored by Sam, shouldn't that cover it? I thought Marlene was the only paid person at CBER... so payroll taxes I guess are for her... is that right? lotta questions. not sure why this had to 'leak' and not be just talked about at the time... request for sponsors, donations, etc... Certainly if there is a 'deadline' or they will be euthed... brings back old memories
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Post by earlybp on Apr 1, 2008 16:04:09 GMT -5
I don't even know what to say. I am sitting here feeling helpless and angry.
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Post by Aiden's Mommy on Apr 1, 2008 17:53:06 GMT -5
I don't even know what to say.... I can't believe I actually saw this... To me, it brings a whole nother side to CBER to my face that I did not want to see.... Nothing bad, Just does not understand. I hope someone or something can work this out and we wont have to see CBER flop like a lot of other rescues have in the past. This needs to be resolved.
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chrisw
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 267
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Post by chrisw on Apr 1, 2008 18:10:01 GMT -5
What horses are at Sam's?? Is Mr Magoo still alive? Are any candidates for the camp/school in Nebr that is looking for horses on ABR??
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Post by Admin on Apr 1, 2008 18:22:35 GMT -5
No, the responsible thing to do would be to ask for help in re-homing or funds FIRST.
You DO NOT put a horse down just as a matter of convenience without looking into all the options. I whole heartedly agree with euthanasia for a horse THAT NEEDS IT.
No one on this board was made aware that this was even an option until now.
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chrisw
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 267
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Post by chrisw on Apr 1, 2008 18:28:46 GMT -5
No, the responsible thing to do would be to ask for help in re-homing or funds FIRST. You DO NOT put a horse down just as a matter of convenience without looking into all the options. I whole heartedly agree with euthanasia for a horse THAT NEEDS IT. No one on this board was made aware that this was even an option until now. I AGREE!!! What's happening here??
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Post by penny/pals on Apr 1, 2008 18:56:20 GMT -5
I did read a while back that sam was struggling $ with all of the horses at camolot the ones that took forever to ship back east. She was looking for help at that time with funds to support the horses that were in CBER custody. I can't remember what thread it was on though. I seems that alot of times unless there is an outright emergency things get overlooked.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 1, 2008 19:17:48 GMT -5
Sorry Rodeo, but it is just discussion of a very disturbing email. I understand it was intended to only go to a certain group, but it got out and we are now talking about the hidden part of CBER as adults who are supporting it.
It is disturbing that there was not a discussion of raising money as the funding got tighter... as donations were needed... and worse that there was a threat of euth if money can't be raised by a deadline.
I did not indicate that $100 would pay for each horse, I indicated that by the reports, CBER placed well over 1000 horses in last year, and at $100 fee on each one, that accounts for enough money to pay expenses on the 11.... that's all I said. I also indicated that the cost of the QT board to an adopter is not indeed the actual cost to Sam to house a horse OFF QT. So, although we are well aware that the 'board bill' might be $3000, that is not her 'out of pocket loss' on that... only her lost 'income' from Camelot. The costs added in for her personal trailer, her ranch implements, etc... all are Camelot expenses, and are covered by her boarding fees and her own income and assumed she assumes that cost herself even if there are NO CBER horses at Camelot... so shouldn't be included. Her Electric bill must be paid regardless of if CBER horses are there. The tractor must be maintained, etc. I assume the payroll taxes are for Marlene, and the LOC, not sure why it exists, but that is apparently borrowed to run CBER. I am personally not clear on what expenses CBER actually has.... besides that for sundry office supplies, Marlene, the Webhosting, and such. I think that as a volunteer, Sam can deduct her gas and such expenses... I guess they might pay for that, but not sure how you keep private expenses from mixing in with volunteer ones if it's a gas card or something. The trailer is Sam's, so I assume the $30 hauling fee is paid to her directly, and the $300 board fee also for QT. lots of assumptions, but I don't know for sure WHAT expenses CBER has, other than Marlene, and cost of feed for horses who are sponsored... and office supplies and webhosting, but the income stated is over $100,000. I don't begrudge the income at all, actually, and hope it is all going to save horses... more horses, and help those who do come from there... I certainly wish our little rescue could generate donations like CBER has, it's an expensive hobby without them, and it would be terrible to lose such a well known rescue on both the kill buyer side and the donor side. I just keep hoping this gets straigtened out, but it keeps getting muddier...
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Post by cybercat on Apr 1, 2008 19:28:44 GMT -5
Mr. Magoo is being adopted by the same people who adopted Rio. I am offended that there is the assumption that he was killed.
This leaked information certainly has had the intended result...congrats to whoever did it. You make me sick.
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mothergoose
Groovy Groom
Together we can make a difference!
Posts: 33
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Post by mothergoose on Apr 1, 2008 19:32:56 GMT -5
I think it ridiculous to hide anything from any of you ALL. This organization has been supported by loving and supporting people "for the love of the equine" but to do away with because of money I find appauling. I know this because this is how I started my rescue by helping others with thier "issues". I do understand it is not cheap nor is it for the weak, but to not be up front and honest with the ones who supply most of the support is like a slap in the face. Why are the ones with the money always the last to know anything, and it seems they are the ones that keep depositing more when asked? I envy all of you who can keep doing this but I feel CBER owes you ALL an HONEST Explanation, not another "just a mistake or misunderstanding". CBER is a great dream and can still be for many horses, but unless it is run as a business with answers for every actions, it will fade as the many others have in the past. Such a shame. I agree that things keep getting muddier but why? If it is too much for Sam then why not ask for help publically? Why only be the BODS or Volunteers? Are they supplying all the monies needed--Not. We all need to be made aware of situations before they become mountains that are too high to climb. _Just my opinion_ Thanks for letting me vent
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Post by afinenettle on Apr 1, 2008 20:01:23 GMT -5
No, the responsible thing to do would be to ask for help in re-homing or funds FIRST. You DO NOT put a horse down just as a matter of convenience without looking into all the options. I whole heartedly agree with euthanasia for a horse THAT NEEDS IT. No one on this board was made aware that this was even an option until now. I agree that help should be asked for in this situation. My understanding was that the orginal email WAS a request for help to the volunteers and board folks with the dire consequences mentioned- and that it got leaked out to the general public...someone put it on craigslist??? Good lord - what purpose would that serve, I wonder??? The original email did what it was supposed to do: all the horses got homes, is my understanding - but I could be wrong. However, this really begs the question again. This surplus of horses does mean that there will not be enough homes. SO WHAT THEN!! Do we demonize people because they have their horses put down when they cannot afford to feed them and cannot find them homes???
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Post by djrepp on Apr 1, 2008 22:05:26 GMT -5
This is the e-mail that was leaked to a member of the ICER board.
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