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Post by leosolis on Jan 3, 2009 19:55:14 GMT -5
When I learned about Maple I was sick to my stomach......While we were told by Chuck that Deb returned that mare to Chucks it was made clear that Sam knew and approved of it. There was NO excuse for Maple to have been returned. She was paid for AND had a home offer. She wasn't going to be a "burden" on Sam as a CBER supported horse. Unfortunately it was never brought up to us "BOD" members so that we could have stopped it. We were all told that Maple had been "placed" by Sam. Yeah, she was placed alright. Right on the truck.
That isn't exactly the truth. I remember the day I heard this story. Sam called me & told me to back off of Deb. I told her No, Deb was (well lets not get me started) liar..Sam explained that Deb knew things..."like What?" I asked..well Deb had taken Maple back to the feedlot & Sam knew about it. I told Sam that I thought she should tell everyone she possibly could about her new found news, it would show how Deb was a scam. I will never forget Sam's reply to me..." I hauled the horse back to the feedlot for her in my trailer" I was so shocked I couldn't remember the name of the horse, I told Tash what I had heard & knew she would get the facts & go from there (which she did). The kickbacks weren't cash under the table really..they were checks made out to Sam Panayotopulos...I have 5 in front of me on my desk, Dave didn't have time to find all the checks so he quickly just gave me a few, he will give them all to me when he does his taxes.
Ck #1026 $320.00 Dated 8-12-2007 CK #1071 $360.00 dated 11-3-2007 CK#1091 $200.00 Dates 11-19-2007 CK #1097 $260.00 Dated 12-4-2007 Ck #1128 $120.00 Dated 1-25-2008
I will say that he told me in the beginning it was $50 per horse & $30 per yearling....he later told her he couldn't pay that anymore with the cost of feed, his prices were to high & it changed to $40 per horse & $20 Per yearling.
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Post by michelle on Jan 3, 2009 20:04:44 GMT -5
Every good-hearted person believes that other people feel the same, and, are trying as hard as they can to save as many horses as possible. I never dreamed that a rescue could do what was done to Maple, Aqua Bay, and the others. I agree about the intentions of most involved, and am trying to remember that through all of this...but when they try and equate Sam to Jesus, that is just so offensive in so many ways, let alone completely over the top. With that logic, "not casting the first stone", no one would be accountable for ANYTHING that they did. Sam really missed her calling as a cult leader...then again, maybe not. In reference to: Never met any of the people posting on the other site... find myself wondering where they'd all be if someone from a very famous book walked into a group of them and said what he said to the people getting ready to stone a certain Mary Magdalene. modified to add.....now that I read it again....it still doesn't apply, and I suppose it could be read several ways. Either way, over the top and an excuse for everyone that would ever choose to victimize another.
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Post by drjinva on Jan 3, 2009 20:48:53 GMT -5
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to face the facts when they are presented over and over again.
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Post by leosolis on Jan 4, 2009 0:21:02 GMT -5
I think alot of us felt like we would really be letting the horses down. I was wanting to leave long before SOS, but didn't want to see the horses at Dave's lot not recieve help. It was Dave that approached me about branching off, once I realized he was serious & would let us still help the horses without CBER we began the legwork for SOS.
Sometimes what I think people don't understand, is that everyone involved is donating & making sacrifices for the horses..not for someones pocketbook. Donations are not always money sometimes if a persons time..time they take away from there family to cheerlead or write an ad, or answer an ad, or answer questions its very time consuming. When you take time away from your family, friends or loved ones & find out that you have been had its worse than just money that you lost. You lost out on memories and to scam someone out of that is wrong, period.
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Post by kellyd on Jan 4, 2009 1:07:01 GMT -5
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to face the facts when they are presented over and over again. Debbie, coming from you, your words speak volumes!!
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Post by drjinva on Jan 4, 2009 9:52:21 GMT -5
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to face the facts when they are presented over and over again. Debbie, coming from you, your words speak volumes!! Thanks Kelly! We were used. I didn't mind donating money if the horses were going to be forever safe, but once I knew that wasn't the case, I had to cut ties.
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Post by tireddog on Jan 4, 2009 11:00:28 GMT -5
For me I held onto several issues, causing me not to want to see the truth. I didn't want to turn my back on those horses who need help. By admitting to what I was seeing, I had to leave. I have still been asked to help periodically by one volunteer who I adore and respect so much, but now I wonder if I actually caused more damage than good? Yes, those horses were spared, but at what cost to the others? Second, and this makes no real sense to me, but emotionally and mentally by turning my back to CBER I felt I was invalidating all my beautiful horses here who we accepted into our family and came from CBER. I felt I would be denying them their heritage, or something bizarre like that. Finally, it felt so good to be a part of something so collective, so strong, and so family-like while saving horses. I had a job and was a cog in a wheel, and I felt important and helpful. I wanted so desperately to not be a failure or a part of something that was not what it seems to be. So I played ostrich, buried my head in the ground, stuck my fingers inside my ears, and sang, "La-la-la-la-la" as loudly as I could so I wouldn't hear what you all were saying. I now see and hear what has been presented for so long - and my heart breaks, but only for the horses.
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Post by drjinva on Jan 4, 2009 11:33:41 GMT -5
I always thought about the horses too. I got to know six of them -- Frankie, Fannie, Roper, Paris (Parrot Mouth), Lennox, and George. It was awesome knowing that my efforts and the efforts of people all over the country had saved them. But then I started thinking that they could have been betrayed just like Maple and the others were. I feel really bad for the horses whose last chance is through CBER, but even if bail, QT, and a home offer are in place, there's still not a guarantee. That just isn't good enough.
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 4, 2009 11:52:55 GMT -5
Fannie came very very close even though she had someone from the east coast paying her bills... and Paris very nearly didn't get listed at all.
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Post by drjinva on Jan 4, 2009 12:10:06 GMT -5
Fannie came very very close even though she had someone from the east coast paying her bills... and Paris very nearly didn't get listed at all. I remember Fannie being in danger. Originally, Barb had agreed to take five horses, and then Fannie was added on at the last minute. Izzy (Paris) is a really sweet horse. If I remember correctly, Barb rode her and was quite impressed. Modified to add and then to correct grammar: I was sweating it out with all of the weather delays. It was a relief when they were all loaded and on their way.
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Post by rodeo51 on Jan 4, 2009 13:08:32 GMT -5
I find it interesting that their hiding the question and answers thread over on the CBER board. Wonder what there hiding??? There also banning people for asking questions.
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Post by michelle on Jan 4, 2009 14:06:39 GMT -5
I find it interesting that their hiding the question and answers thread over on the CBER board. Wonder what there hiding??? There also banning people for asking questions. If people asking questions are banned, how do those same people p.m. Shelley to ask for her address to send the questions to? That is pretty slick. I bet Diane thought of that...she is incredibly slippery. More of Sam's apprentice than dupe. The taxes should have already been posted a long time ago, but instead they posted Sam's personal taxes and Camelot taxes. It's a regular scooby mystery. It is law that they supply CBER's tax returns to anyone that requests them. Hint hint. modified to add....in response to Shelley, who appears to responding to the ro posts, the sec of state page is not enough. (re link posted: www.secstate.wa.gov/charities/search_detail.aspx?charity_id=21234 ) CBER is legally obligated to provide the full tax return to anyone requesting it. Additionally, all the sec of state has is 2006 info. Many of us have been waiting for tax year 2007 to be posted. Here it is, 2009, and it is still not public.
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Post by baadass on Jan 4, 2009 16:21:18 GMT -5
removed
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Post by Admin on Jan 4, 2009 16:58:34 GMT -5
I know she loved me till the funds dried up. We were then the enemy.
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Post by redhorse on Jan 4, 2009 18:35:58 GMT -5
I personally deeply regret the long period of time I was so adamant about remaining neutral about CBER. Since the shooting of Lavender and Meadow I have come to appreciate the perceptiveness of folks like Cat, Ali, Angfreda, Marilyn, and Syndi, as well as several others who saw through the CBER web of bullshit early on - those that were in the "Haters" Club, 1st edition.
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Post by Kirsten on Jan 4, 2009 18:54:39 GMT -5
I bet many of you former volunteers recall Sam telling you that she loved you at the end of phone conversations. Oh yeah, she loves your sincere devotion to cber and whatever part you play in maintaining the cash flow. Oh definitely...and let's not forget her favorite quote, "Well, between You, Me and the fencepost....."
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Post by leosolis on Jan 4, 2009 19:44:17 GMT -5
I bet many of you former volunteers recall Sam telling you that she loved you at the end of phone conversations. Oh yeah, she loves your sincere devotion to cber and whatever part you play in maintaining the cash flow. I can honestly say she never told me she loved me. Thats just creepy.
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Post by lurker on Jan 5, 2009 12:33:48 GMT -5
I bet many of you former volunteers recall Sam telling you that she loved you at the end of phone conversations. Oh yeah, she loves your sincere devotion to cber and whatever part you play in maintaining the cash flow. I can honestly say she never told me she loved me. Thats just creepy. Well, she told me you were her favorite. ;D
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Post by leosolis on Jan 5, 2009 14:20:00 GMT -5
I can honestly say she never told me she loved me. Thats just creepy. Well, she told me you were her favorite. ;D Gee thanks I have a slimy creepy feeling instead of a warm fuzzy one...
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Post by lurker on Jan 5, 2009 14:22:28 GMT -5
Just wanted to make sure you knew you were "loved"
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 5, 2009 20:05:39 GMT -5
Well, she told me you were her favorite. ;D Gee thanks I have a slimy creepy feeling instead of a warm fuzzy one... Kind of like stepping in a cat barf hair ball when you walk out into the kitchen in the dark. LOL ;D ;D ;D EEEEWWWW!! Sorry, I was just trying to visualize the slimy creepy feeling.
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Post by Admin on Jan 5, 2009 20:23:23 GMT -5
ick
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Post by leosolis on Jan 6, 2009 1:55:28 GMT -5
Gee thanks I have a slimy creepy feeling instead of a warm fuzzy one... Kind of like stepping in a cat barf hair ball when you walk out into the kitchen in the dark. LOL ;D ;D ;D EEEEWWWW!! Sorry, I was just trying to visualize the slimy creepy feeling. still getting heebeegeebee's just thinking about that.
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Post by Kirsten on Jan 6, 2009 11:20:55 GMT -5
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Post by halfwayhome on Jan 6, 2009 17:15:37 GMT -5
I feel the need to clarify some of the things I am seeing on Fugly regarding the post that I made:
1) the horse in question was never paid for or bailed by outside people, he had the bad luck of not being saved and was originally sent out on the truck. 2) he was denied by them because of his condition and returned, it was at this point that I saw him again and felt he "deserved" a kinder fate to end his days after the hell trip, and it was at that time I was told that the feedlot owner wanted to fatten him up and slaughter him for himself for meat. After which, hearing my reaction, I was asked about that and told that S had eaten horse meat before. I didn't say she ate THAT horse, I do not know if she did or not, or really if she ever did, just that she TOLD me she did at that time of our conversation when I wanted to save the horse and she told me what the lot owner was going to do with him. 3) my point in saying this was not a dialog on eating or not eating horse meat, although I could never do it and do not believe in it, it was about the fact that its hypocritical to take people's money to save horses, lie to them about aspects of the rescue and the whereabouts of other certain horses who were saved and paid for by people, and at the same time allow one to be killed for meat without protest, all the while trying to do I do not know what in telling me she had eaten horse meat before.
I truly wish what tiredog came up with would come about, but realistically cannot see it happening.
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Post by chocolatemoose on Jan 7, 2009 14:31:37 GMT -5
Shelly finally posted an incomplete 2007 990 for CBER. If this is an authentic document it clearly shows a substantial decline in adoption fees( I wonder why) The boarding expenses claimed by CBER in the years 05 & 06 are in upwards of $80,000 I was under the impression that boarding and quarantine fees were paid by the adopters on top of the adoption fee!
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Post by michelle on Jan 7, 2009 14:45:13 GMT -5
The boarding expense on the 990's was what Sam charged cber for boarding healthy cber sponsored horses. The price per month more than doubled over a two year period. Those of us that resigned used to argue with her over it, but we could not effect any change...after all, we were NOT bod. The time line on the price doubling is hazy for me right now, but it was when Mulesrule left. She was going to adopt Drummer, and the going board rate that Sam charged was $150. Sam doubled that to $300 while Drummer was there, and tried to get that from Mulesrule even though the prior understanding was $150. It was a loss to see her go. I read on the cber minutes that she wants to up it to $450 now. mta from Caly: Cr@p! I went to hit "quote" to reply to this and hit "modify" instead. I was able to recapture your post Michelle, but not the chocolatemoose's post above that *you* had quoted. I'm so sorry. I am such a klutz with technology.
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Post by swissgrl on Jan 7, 2009 14:57:24 GMT -5
$450.00 to QT a Horse? That is crazy, it does not cost that much a month to board/QT a horse, especially if Meds are NOT included in that price.
That just jacks up the price on the lot horses even more. People can barely come up with the adoption fee and QT as it is!
Now, question, Sam is no longer president of CBER, does that mean you still have to QT at Camelot? Or can/will they open it up to other QT places again?
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Post by calypso on Jan 7, 2009 15:03:21 GMT -5
The timing of the change from $150 to $300 was probably in the fall of 2006. I adopted Kaleigh (CBER Tabby) during that time and she was boarded at Camelot (this was before mandatory QT, but K was very sick and couldn't be transported.) I did not confirm prices with Sam directly (my bad) because there was a section on the CBER board in effect at that time had a section listing "local" (to Yakima) resources for out-of-area adopters. The Camelot fees on that thread were listed at $150 per month. However, when I received the bill and it said $300 per month, I went back to the thread to confirm and the thread had been deleted. I paid without protest cause I figured it was my fault for not confirming arrangements with her directly. I assumed that the increased board cost included supplemental feed, but found out right before she came down that it didn't. Again, my bad. That old joke about assume = ass+u+me. mta: to get MY post out of Michelle's post (above) and get hers back in place.
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Post by jenm on Jan 7, 2009 15:09:06 GMT -5
The timing of the change from $150 to $300 was probably in the fall of 2006. I adopted Kaleigh (CBER Tabby) during that time and she was boarded at Camelot (this was before mandatory QT, but K was very sick and couldn't be transported.) I did not confirm prices with Sam directly (my bad) because there was a section on the CBER board in effect at that time had a section listing "local" (to Yakima) resources for out-of-area adopters. The Camelot fees on that thread were listed at $150 However, when I received the bill and it said $300 per month, I went back to the thread to confirm and it had been deleted. I paid without protest cause I figured it was my fault for not confirming arrangements with her directly. I assumed that the increased board cost included supplemental feed, but found out right before she came down that it didn't. Again, my bad. That old joke about assume = ass+you+me. You left out the part where pictures showed she wasn't even at Camelot and no one who knew the area recognized the scenery in the background of your photo.
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