RIP Dazzler (CBER Pop Corn) ~ 12/9/07 ~

[MustangAppy]

Well, things went okay. She was way behind when we arrived, and we had to wait an hour due to some emergency stitching on a couple of other horses. So, no x-rays this time. She did feel that the amount of calcification to the pastern and some mild muscle atrophy in that leg and hip were consistent with an old healed injury, but that the current lameness was likely due to a combination of colder nights and possibly recent re-injury. Prognosis for that is unknown, but we will see what my farrier can do to make him more mobile. I would appreciate name of any barefoot trimmers in the area if anyone has a source for this information. Warren leans toward barefoot trimming, and doesn't like to shoe unless he has to, but I don't think he has any formal training in it. Dazz's sheath was a mess, and he had a pretty good sized bean going on along with some inflamation due the urine stream not going where it was supposed to. Once she got him all extended and cleaned out he just peed and peed, and then when we got home he peed some more. No more splashing! She gave him a mild antiseptic scrub down there as well. His teeth are all there, but he has wavy mouth. She adjusted what she could, and recommened an equine dentist who comes up a few times a month from Salt Lake City for another look if he stops putting on weight with the senior feed and hay. Antibiotic ointment for his eyes, which seem to be doing better, but are a bit runny now that the inflamation has gone down. I did notice tonight that he seems to be chewing better, not as much is falling out of his mouth when he eats his grain, so I am sure he can do better with the hay as well.

[cybercat]

Yay! Sounds positive so far, yes?

What is wavy mouth?

And I had to laugh about the peeing after being cleaned...reminds me of my dad, who was very proud of the jet stream after prostate surgery, if you get my drift.....

[calypso]

All-in-all sounds pretty good. Did she do any blood work on him?

[djrepp]

This is very good news. You must feel much better and the horse too!

[Admin]

WooHoo! Love those weenie washes for the boys. Most don't appreciate being violated during but are certainly happy after ;D
He is looking MUCH better!

[MustangAppy]

Wavy mouth is when the teeth when viewed from the side look like a mountain range with deep valleys in some areas and high peaks in others. Here is a web link with photos:
www.bevet.com/EquineDentistry.htm

PEC, he had a lip quiver going pretty good during the wash, so I think he was okay with it....

[MustangAppy]

So, he now eats his senior feed without coaxing, I guess because it isn't as much work now that the teeth fit better. We are getting 6 cups a day down him in addition to all the grass/alfalfa hay he can hold. The only problem is that he expects you to hold his grain pan for him while he eats it. If you set it down he gives you the stink eye. He still eats it, but it is like he wants that extra security of knowing that you won't let another horse take it away from him. We have got to get some weight on him before it gets too much colder. It is already dropping to freezing here at night. Last winter there was a 3 month spell where it didn't get above 40 ever. Our frost free hydrant froze solid, and we were packing water from the house. Our shed isn't insulated, we may have to do that to help out the situation.

[pnp4kidz]

Got a half Walnut sized bean out of Cookie Crumb a few nights ago! He sure must feel better!
then, tonight, found Mr Rocket hangin, so checked him, and dang! found a WALNUT sized bean! hard as a rock! hard to get it out, but I did, he must be feelin' WAY better!!!
neither even lifted a foot!
must be a WA thing, I never have found much larger than a pea on any before!

[MustangAppy]

I would say half walnut on Dazz as well, and I have never seen so much red/brown gunk in all my life, his sheath was just gummed up terrible. Even after Brian had cleaned him some right after arrival, the vet got a bunch more. He was just all kinds of nasty in there. Pal is a very happy gelding, and he is "out" all the time. I have checked him, but he just doesn't accumulate anything. Ick. The one thing no one told me about when choosing a horse. Geldings should come with a warning sticker: "Caution, owner must have strong stomach and gentle hands, regular weenie washes required." Lord.

[paintedlady]

EEEWWWWWWWWW So glad he is feeling better ;D

[cutiepiepmu]

Mustang - you have a PM

[gratefulknits]

spyder said:

. Geldings should come with a warning sticker: "Caution, owner must have strong stomach and gentle hands, regular weenie washes required." Lord.

That's so funny! When I took my equine health class last spring at our local junior college, the vet teaching the class went over how to clean the sheath, first in the lecture part of class and then later in the demonstration section. There sat I, smugly ignoring the whole thing because "I'll never own a gelding; only mares for me!" Well, wouldn't you know, 5 months later the world's biggest gelding lands in my lap, and I'm out there after his dentistry (when he was "three sheets to the wind", if you know what I mean) trying to remember what to do! It went ok, but I already know how I'll do it differently next time. First point of order: even the most stoned horse in the world won't let you rinse his hoo-hoo with cold water! ;D

[MustangAppy]

Yeah, the vet had Dazz only lightly stoned, because of his age and the teeth floating, but he was pretty happy about the whole warm sponge bath thing. He really did have lip quiver thing going. Brian was a hoot! He was just checking out the whole process and asking about the bean, where it was, how to get it out and so on. He was amazed by the whole process. He finally just said the dumbest thing I have ever heard: "Well, I guess they can't wash it themselves..." The vet just stared at him, and then looked at me like, "So, you married this guy...." It was funny!

[cybercat]

LOL! You know what, its really difficult to get a bean out of a mini...the vet found one, but I've never been able to...

[MustangAppy]

Okay, stop it! I just had the funniest image pop into my head of someone stooped over a mini with a magnifying glass....

[cybercat]

Let's see- to remove a mini's bean, get one of those rolling platforms that mechanics use, and a pair of magnifying jewelers goggles....a flake of hay, soft music, and..........

[countrygirl]

Ok so I have my first ever gelding - he's 18 months. When do I need to start worrying about all of this fun stuff

[MustangAppy]

Cutiepie has been corresponding with me about a new diet to put weight on Dazzler. I am rounding up ingredients, and we will give it a try. Now if I can get a hold of the farrier, he is suposed to be out tomorrow, but I need to confirm a time. Is anyone in WA having trouble getting hay? Folks around here are starting to scamble, the local suppliers are all pretty much done. We put in 6 ton earlier, and had 2 ton from last year, so I think we are okay, but I am going to try and get 2 more ton just in case we have a late spring. Especially since I haven't a clue yet what Dazz will need to eat.

[MustangAppy]

Well shoot, the little monster won't eat his calorie mash ! Sierra liked it, I had to chase her off it and lock her in the pasture. I left him with his hay pile and a bucket of calories he won't touch.

[djrepp]

Do you have him on alfalfa or orchard? Can he eat the senior?

[MustangAppy]

So far, the Dazzler Diet is a bust. Timothy/alfalfa pellet mix, soaked beet pulp, ground flax seed, and corn oil, well mixed. Sierra LOVED it, had to chase her off. The free choice grass hay is all he seems to want. I will go check his bucket again later, the pill, to see if he wasn't just being a problem because he wanted whatever Sierra had. She has been put out in the eaten down pasture so she wouldn't put more weight on her fat butt by eating his old man mush. My vet thinks Dazzler may be quite a bit older than they thought at the lot. She thinks he is at least 24, based on the fact that he only has a visible Galvayne's Groove for about 1/8" on one canine, the other groove is gone.

[TashGaia]

Galvayne's Grooves go away?

[crum]

tashgaia said:

Galvayne's Grooves go away?

On most horses they have grown out completely by approximately age 30. If I remember right Lilly's is a little over half gone on both of hers right now.

modified because now I'm wondering if Dazzler's groove is gone completely on one tooth and only has 1/8 inch left on the other wouldn't that make him older than 24?

[crum]

spyder said:

So far, the Dazzler Diet is a bust. Timothy/alfalfa pellet mix, soaked beet pulp, ground flax seed, and corn oil, well mixed. Sierra LOVED it, had to chase her off. The free choice grass hay is all he seems to want. I will go check his bucket again later, the pill, to see if he wasn't just being a problem because he wanted whatever Sierra had. She has been put out in the eaten down pasture so she wouldn't put more weight on her fat butt by eating his old man mush. My vet thinks Dazzler may be quite a bit older than they thought at the lot. She thinks he is at least 24, based on the fact that he only has a visible Galvayne's Groove for about 1/8" on one canine, the other groove is gone.

Have you tried it without the oil? Some horses seem to hate the oil in general. Of course I also have one that won't eat corn oil but loves the soybean oil.

[MustangAppy]

Well, there was only 1 cup oil in about 3 gallons of feed, so I don't think that was a huge part of the problem. He just didn't seem to want to eat it. He wanted his pile of hay. I tried feeding the mush first, and he kept moving over to Sierra and trying to take her hay. I gave up and moved Sis out, and left the bucket of mush and his hay in the shed. So, where is he? Out trying to graze in a snow covered pasture that is eaten down to nubs. On the teeth thing, basically all the vet said was that he was at least 24, probably older. All I know is that he is a pill. Typical Appytude. Like Sierra. When I was trying to move her out of the shed to the pasture, she tried to "snake" me out of her way (the way a mustang moves his herd, this is something new for her, she learned it from Pal). Modified to add that it is 5:25 PM here, and his mush is still in the feeding bucket. SCREAM!!!! Took him out more hay, that was all gone. At least he is eating something.

[ptowne]

I think that beet pulp is an acquired taste for some horses. My gelding would not eat beet pulp at all when I first started giving it to him. I had to mix his grain in with the beet pulp and slowly increase the ratio of beet pulp to grain. I know that many think that it is like liquid poison, but I did put some molasses in with the beet pulp to get him started, since my beet pulp is without. My mare hates wet grain and absolutely will not eat sloppy mush. A bit wet is okay, but if it is really wet, she will actually pick up her feed tub and throw it over and over. Then she paws and whinnies and generally has a fit because she has no dinner. My ponies scarfed plain beet pulp down right from the get go. Anything that gets dumped out of a coffee can or comes in a bucket is alright in their book.

Maybe you could try mixing some of the mush in with his senior feed. Or you could try mixing the flax seed and corn oil into his senior feed, then when he's eating that well, start adding the beet pulp. It just may have been too dramatic a change for him. I would think that the main goal is to get calories into him. I've actually never heard of a horse that doesn't like grain. How about a good quality senior feed? I use Triple Crown Senior. It is beet pulp based and has all the good stuff like rice bran oil, etc. It is also 10 or 12% fat which lowers the glycemic index. I've also heard good things about Purina's senior feed, not sure that it is called. I'm not sure that it is that critical to limit carbs so strictly if a horse is not IR or Cushings.
JMHO,
Pam

[pnp4kidz]

I start with 1/4 cup of oil to an entire feed. It goes down better at first.
You will only work up to half cup or a full cup MAX over a few weeks... that is a ton of calories, fat is very dense.
and I"d start him on only half gallon of feed twice a day at first...
he is probably just getting too much...
my old lady who is getting supplimental feeds only gets half gallon once a day and hay.
the stallion who is eating ONLY pellets and is very hard keeper, and needs to gain weight gets 4 gallons of feed twice a day...
I think you are feeding too much.. that is all.
oh, and mine are all on dry lots! yours have grass apparently!
and just for fun, go to safergrass.org and read about grass... and you will see WHY your boy is going for that grass under the snow which is nibbled all down, that is the MOST stressed grass you have, so it is the highest in sugar! It can be up to 30% sugar under snow!!! it sure isn't DEAD under there!LOL!!! he is one smart horsie!
being that old, you might need to think of Insulin resistance.... when the vet comes, get an insulin and glucose from a single blood draw, and tell us the numbers... I can convert it to a ratio and give you a feel for if he is IR or not... that will make all the difference in HOW you feed him!
concrats on his appytude... he's in there!!!

[webmistress32]

I would kill the oil and add rice bran instead.

also the flax goes down better whole and soaked than ground.

jmho

[MustangAppy]

Well, I have 3 small grain pans, and I am going to put the 3 main ingredients into it individually and see what his problem is. He just doesn't want to eat anything that isn't hay right now. We had to coax with the senior feed, too. I am almost convinced that he just missed being able to really chew his hay, so now that he can, he just doesn't think pellets or mush are any fun.

[cutiepiepmu]

With this kid being suspect of IR/Cushings at least on a low level - senior feeds and whatnot can be a real issue - BUT -

what I suggest - Try doing the hay pellets alone - see if he will eat those- add alittle hot water ot make them soft. If he will eat those, do his buckets with the pellets and flax in the total amount per feeding. After that is going good- add a little beet pulp at a time and mix it into the pellets - work up over the next 30 days or so till he is eating the beet pulp without issue I have never had a horse refuse oil unless the feed is actually greasy - but adding some plain salt to the mix - around 1 tablespoon per 5 pounds dry measure of the tim/Alf pellets may help palitability.

Will send you another PM Mustang

Sara in WA