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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 7, 2007 18:46:16 GMT -5
Hmmm. Well, I tried giving him the beet pulp and hay pellets dry, mixed with a little ground flax seed, and he ate it. Guess it is the mush texture he doesn't like. I will try giving small amounts dry for a few days and see if he will consistently eat it. If so, I think we found his problem. Modified to add that I have to get some weight on this boy so my husband, whose horse he was supposed to be before we discovered we got a 24+ year old unsound pasture pet, will stop calling him Fizzler. Grumble...men can be so insensitive.  |
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Post by ptowne on Oct 7, 2007 18:57:14 GMT -5
Is the beet pulp shredded or pellets? I know that there are vets who say that dry beet pulp is perfectly safe and a vet surgeon who says that the vast majority of chokes he has treated are related to beet pulp. Since I have a mare that has choked multiple times, I just feel safer with it at least wet enough to break down the pellets. This is the same mare that will throw her feed dish over the fence if it is too wet. My senior feed has a base of shredded beet pulp. I don't think I would worry too much about the shredded. But who knows?
pam
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Oct 7, 2007 19:02:44 GMT -5
There are some people who feel it is fine to feed beet pullp without soaking - but from my own experience the pellets cause a MASSIVE choke risk, especially in seniors who may not chew as completely. Working as a tec for many years and now along side many vets - I woudl say that most all of the choke in horses i have seen have been due to unsoaked pellets - mainly beet pulp - although a few hay, but most of those are young horses that gulp feed . Beet pulp pellets can cause a colic risk if consumed in large amounts dry(mostly in the foregut before they are able to pass into the rear to digest) The Shreds do not have to be soaked, but finding the shreds around here seems to be almost impossible unless you live in an area that grows a fair amount of sugar beets. At least you figured out what his mantra is  Sara in WA |
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Post by webmistress32 on Oct 7, 2007 19:18:00 GMT -5
careful! beet pulp and whole flax must be soaked. the flax is toxic without soaking. the beet pulp dry can be problematic.
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 7, 2007 19:29:14 GMT -5
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 7, 2007 19:31:56 GMT -5
I will continue to soak the pellets, and mix them with the dry hay pellets. The flax seed is human grade, and ground.
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Post by ptowne on Oct 7, 2007 19:32:45 GMT -5
Give it some time. It takes time to get those butts built back up. To get that drop from the tailhead, they have lost muscle in addition to fat. In my experience it takes more time for them to build the muscle back up. He definitely looks better. You're doing a good job.
Pam
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Post by patrolhorse on Oct 7, 2007 21:12:22 GMT -5
He is DEFINATELY looking better!
I have to show these pictures to my other-half so he can see I'm not the only one that uses the backyard as a second pasture!! It's an area of conflict for us- but the way I see it there's no need to waste good grass right??
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 7, 2007 22:37:53 GMT -5
We are expanding our fences in the yard, the one we have up now is temporary. I can't wait til it's done. We will be adding a hitching post as well. It's funny, I don't know why I call it a hitching post, I never tie the horses to anything, I just need a place to throw my saddle that isn't the ground... Now the dogs, those I might hitch. They won't stand still for grooming. Farrier had to cancel due to the storms we have had. He will be out Tuesday. I warned him that it might be tough for Dazz to stand on that right rear while he works on his other feet. I might have to take him to the farrier's place, he has a support harness.
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Post by cybercat on Oct 8, 2007 0:26:50 GMT -5
I think you are doing an awesome job...its been tough on you but Dazzler is so lucky to have you caring for him. I am very sorry your hubby is calling his birthday present Fizzler...will you smack him for me???
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Post by TashGaia on Oct 8, 2007 0:30:56 GMT -5
I think when he get's weight back on him that he will be a completely different horse. Bet your husband is talking different come spring!
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Oct 8, 2007 1:00:54 GMT -5
I think he is looking ALOT better already. With these guys it just takes time They didn't become a rack of bones in couple of weeks and they won't look 100% in a couple of weeks either And besides, for being about 120 years old, i figure he looks pretty darn good! Come spring or so - he will look half his age Take care, Sara inWa |
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 8, 2007 11:14:46 GMT -5
Well, he really doesn't like the soaked beet pulp. Did a fresh batch, only used about 1/4 of it to his whole portion, and he is eating around it. He carefully sorts the bowl and picks the hay pellets out with his lips. ARG! The phrase "Appy butts drive me nuts" is taking on new meaning....
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Post by pnp4kidz on Oct 8, 2007 11:27:51 GMT -5
we have one who likes it way better dry too...
so far no problem. we use shreds.
you could also add water, let it soak, then dry it...
flax, btw, should be fresh and not soaked, it gives off cyanide when wet...
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 8, 2007 12:01:07 GMT -5
Hmm. I am looking for shreds. It has been a real battle finding things around here. As many horses as live in this area, you would think the feed dealers would have more options. In my neighborhood (about 10 square miles), only about 3 people don't have any horses. And there are 4 equine facilities with indoor arenas large enough for competition level activities. I am going to start asking around, but I am betting a lot of these folks just order directly from suppliers. Maybe I can just get things from them.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Oct 8, 2007 13:39:08 GMT -5
try for LMF showsweet.
or... the speedibeet.. it is teeny crumbs.
I get some directly from our feedmill sometimes... don't like the texture quite like I do the showsweet tho
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Post by ptowne on Oct 8, 2007 14:30:28 GMT -5
I read on COTH that there was a beet pulp shortage. I assumed it was localized until I went to the feed store today. No beet pulp available and don't know when there will be. The clerk said that a vet had recommended one of their customers use hay stretcher pellets instead. So I bought a bag of hay stretcher pellets to use when my beet pulp is gone.
About picking around the beet pulp, I had to mix the grain in and wet everything or my horses would also pick around the beet pulp. What about adding just a little apple juice?
Pam
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Post by ptowne on Oct 8, 2007 14:38:22 GMT -5
I just went back and looked at his lot pictures. It almost doesn't even look like the same horse. The difference between then and now are pretty striking. Poor guy.
Pam
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Oct 8, 2007 15:13:04 GMT -5
I personally do not care for the LMF showsweet. It has a fair amount of molasses still in it - which for an IR horse won't work the texture is good though. Beet pulp shreds don't have to be soaked- so those aer always my favorite option - but finding them is rediculously hard sometimes! What brand of feed do you have available Mustang? Purina? nutrena? just curious - let me know and I may be able to help figure out a product from one of those companies that can be ordered. Take care, Sara |
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 8, 2007 15:17:15 GMT -5
If I hadn't look twice at his coat pattern, I wouldn't have believed it was the same horse myself. I was pretty upset, but there is nothing to be done about it. We love him, and will do what we can to make him comfortable for the rest of his life. At 24+, I don't know what that will be, maybe 4-6 years. Soundness is going to be more of a problem than the weight issue. We will have to see what the farrier says in the morning. Modified to add, the vet says he is border line insulin resistant, which is why we are trying to keep the sugars to a minimum.
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Post by mykingdomforahorse on Oct 8, 2007 16:06:34 GMT -5
What a striking horse. I've never seen anything like him.
Here whenever possible we use Senior for weight gain, along with oats and corn oil. I actually found Senior that is without the sugar, because my draft was getting too feisty during refeeding.
It's Nutrena Senior. The bag says:
-High fat rice bran and ground flax seed
-Organic trace mineral complexes
-Highly digestible beet pulp fiber
All the stuff is already in there. Makes it easy. A little corn oil on top, which is supposed to be the least hot-making of the oils, and I have no problem having my guys gain their much-needed weight. It's the same way I'll help Cloud gain.
Em
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Post by Tockita on Oct 8, 2007 19:41:13 GMT -5
We have an older Appy my daughter still rides. We know her age because we have an old copy of her papers, but her teeth are much older. I fuss because she always seems a little thin on top, but my vet insisits it's just her age and lost muscle tone. (he is looking at her ribs and neck not her rump as I do.
We were doing a small complete pellet, but have now put her on Integrity Senior which she LOVES! I think she would kill me to get it... Shes filling out better then she has in 2 years on this stuff, and some hay.
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Post by TashGaia on Oct 8, 2007 19:45:07 GMT -5
My vet aged my appy 5 years older then he was (11 instead of 6), but I know his exact birthday. I think perhaps Appy teeth might not fit the usual rules...
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Oct 8, 2007 20:31:54 GMT -5
Nutrena Life Design Senior is one of the few I will use for the senior feeds - the issue with this kid is that if he is having insulin resistance issues - anything with starch/sugars can actually make the gaining process harder for him and also possibly lead to other issues like laminitis or founder. Obviously this means, no grain products, especially corn or corn gluten, no molasses, and some horses even have issues with the small amount of sugars present in rice bran. Almost all horses will develop some level of IR as they age - it is a very common thing.
I do wonder about appy teeth. I had an old OLD leopard appy stallion when I was younger. We had his papers and he was actually 26, but the vet who saw his teeth aged him at 35 or older. He was a hardy bugger though - we got him at 26 and he finally passed at the ripe old age of 41! I think appy's get the "hardy" gene for sure!
Sara in WA
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 8, 2007 21:41:34 GMT -5
Paladin is back from the trainer! He didn't even hardly sniff at Dazzler, he and Sierra greeted each other, and that was about it. She went back to Dazz, and Pal is off on his own getting re-adjusted to his pasture. So, no drama there. Dazz lost sight of Sis once this evening and took off on a lope. Was pretty impressive, and he didn't drop a step. Maybe the joint is still fusing, and he will be sound on it once its done. It sure isn't pretty, though. BIG old bulge. Found out there is an equine dentist school in Glenns Ferry, only about 1 1/2 hours from here. One of their graduates lives less than 45 minutes away. I shot her an e-mail to find out what it will take to get Dazz's teeth a full assessment. He is definately chewing more efficiently, but if we can help that some more, I am all for it. She might have a better idea of his actual age as well, since she does this for a living. Farrier report tomorrow...
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Post by djrepp on Oct 9, 2007 0:14:09 GMT -5
He was a bit on the thin side on the lot. Considering what he went through, he looks good.
He is a very pretty guy. Horses are hard to age after around 20 from what I hear. I have Vegas who is 20 and she fools them all. The vets have commented that she must have been well-cared for, I don't know that for sure but she is a tough one.
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 9, 2007 12:50:03 GMT -5
The farrier visit went well. He was a good boy and tried hard to stand still. Whenever he got unsteady, the farrier just stopped and let him get his sea legs again. He is moving much better with those long toes gone. Warner doesn't think that there is anything that needs to be done beyond keeping him trimmed up. His hooves are good and hard, and despite the ringbone, that back foot otherwise appears pretty solid. He couldn't see any other signs of disease or malformation. He did the same thing the vet did. He just patted his neck and said he must have been a grand horse at one time. He has used the equine dentist in the next town that was on the web site I mentioned, and highly recommended her, so I will set up a assessment with her and see if she can make Dazz's grinders work better.
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Post by agilitygal on Oct 9, 2007 15:59:01 GMT -5
Yup. One grand horse in his day. Too bad they can't talk and tell us their tales. So much of the unknown. I can't wait to see him in another month of two. I'll bet he's going to begin looking pretty good. I think you're doing a good job. I've watched these old guys reclaim their health when finally in the hands of a caring owner. I think he will more than repay you for all the worry and vet/feed bills.
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Post by MustangAppy on Oct 10, 2007 16:42:15 GMT -5
He is starting to be a little better about his old man food. Today so far he has eaten two 3qt. bowls of it. I will offer him another one this evening. The other two don't like it that he gets "goodies." If I could just take the extra 50 pounds each of them is carrying and apply it directly to Dazz's hips, it would be a great improvement for all involved!
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Post by TashGaia on Oct 10, 2007 16:47:35 GMT -5
LOL! I've never known an Appy to be a picky eater |
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