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Post by TashGaia on Jan 5, 2009 16:40:44 GMT -5
Well, I know one person wanted to double check the specific dates of the events in question. My guess is that some of the others also were looking for fine tune details like that.
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Post by Kirsten on Jan 6, 2009 0:07:58 GMT -5
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Post by pnp4kidz on Jan 6, 2009 0:45:06 GMT -5
awe... ya gotta be a member to snoop on their proboard today~ what happened???
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Post by wildwoman on Jan 6, 2009 1:43:58 GMT -5
OMG I always wondered what happened to Miss FoxyPants-YOWZA have those 2 been through the ringer. She used to write the funniest posts and was interesting to read all her trials and tribulations and all of a sudden everything was deleted from the old board-never knew why.........
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Post by michellep on Jan 6, 2009 11:14:01 GMT -5
HMMM, I just read msfoxypants blog and you will have to excuse me for saying this, but SOME of these horess end up on a slaughter lot for a reason and should have been put down a long time ago by their owners (that is if the owner was responsible & had a heart). I dont believe in slaughter at all, but for some of these horses thats what has to happen. I also believe that there is a disclaimer on the website that states the horses are evaluated & sold "as is". So my question is how could you have ever known the true problems with a particular horse if you only evaluate them quickly? Its not like these horses have infinite amount of time for someone to truly evaluate their potential or potential problems. Everybody I knew thought I was nuts to purchase a horse sight unseen off of the internet, and time & time again my trainer, farrier, vet said that sometimes these horses are there for a very good reason. I got lucky but there are still issues that need to be addressed with my rescue horse. I feel sorry for this person & the problems she is having & commend her for trying to do the right thing by this horse but come on, how do you blame the rescue? Yes the fees are high, the QT fee is high but by the same token horse ownership isnt cheap for either a slaughter bound rescue or a high dollar privately bought horse. Vet bills, trainer fees, boarding all come with horse ownership
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Post by michelle on Jan 6, 2009 12:25:50 GMT -5
HMMM, I just read msfoxypants blog and you will have to excuse me for saying this, but SOME of these horess end up on a slaughter lot for a reason and should have been put down a long time ago by their owners (that is if the owner was responsible & had a heart). I dont believe in slaughter at all, but for some of these horses thats what has to happen. I also believe that there is a disclaimer on the website that states the horses are evaluated & sold "as is". So my question is how could you have ever known the true problems with a particular horse if you only evaluate them quickly? Its not like these horses have infinite amount of time for someone to truly evaluate their potential or potential problems. Everybody I knew thought I was nuts to purchase a horse sight unseen off of the internet, and time & time again my trainer, farrier, vet said that sometimes these horses are there for a very good reason. I got lucky but there are still issues that need to be addressed with my rescue horse. I feel sorry for this person & the problems she is having & commend her for trying to do the right thing by this horse but come on, how do you blame the rescue? Yes the fees are high, the QT fee is high but by the same token horse ownership isnt cheap for either a slaughter bound rescue or a high dollar privately bought horse. Vet bills, trainer fees, boarding all come with horse ownership I think you are missing the point in her blog. This horse was sold as a safe, sane, riding horse for a new owner/ beginner rider. She was anything but that, as was evident from her physical condition and behavior. The adopter could have been seriously injured, and if it were anyone else, this mare would not be safe, but would have probably been dumped at the nearest feedlot/auction.
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Post by michellep on Jan 6, 2009 15:21:53 GMT -5
I dont think I missed the point on the horses description (or maybe im not as smart as I think I am) to me it didnt describe her as anything but barely halter broke and scared. Unfortunately sounds like the person that ended up adopting her was new to horses and took the advise of somebody else. I feel badly that she was hurt, I dont ever want to see somebody seriously hurt and I feel bad that the horse didnt work out and I truly commend her for staying committed to this horse when its obvious that its not working. I think the evaluations on these horses is just that a quick assessment of their limited abilities on a feedlot. Probably not the best places to find sound/sane riding horses.
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Post by tireddog on Jan 6, 2009 15:42:19 GMT -5
Ladies (and Gentlemen if you are present), what do we want to see happen? I know it feels hopeless, like nobody is listening and that by hearing our negative comments CBER will dig in their heals more deeply. I know it feels helpless, like no matter what we say, nothing will change. I know it hurts, like all the time, energy, money, and love we have put in to the horses, CBER, and Sam has all been for someone else's gain and at our expense. But what if ...
What if Sam is reading ... What if Sam is ready to listen ... What if Sam sees that this has now gotten to a point where even her most staunch supporters have left her side ...
Sam, if you are reading and listening, please hear our pleas. (No, that was not intended to sound like a Catholic mass drill, but alas, perhaps prayer is what we need.)
This situation does not appear to be getting any better, especially if CBER now has lockdown on the forum board - yet again. Sam, I opened my eyes and my heart - to you and now away from you. There are so many of us who have supported you in so many ways - many of us as complete strangers. If I, of all people, cannot and will not support CBER practices and protocol any longer, how long will it be before your current and loyal volunteers leave you?
Sam, this is such an incredible opportunity for change. You have been faced with the most extreme of challenges recently and perhaps it is time to face more - head on. We have to fall - hard - before we can pick ourselves up. And you need to do this yourself or there will be no growth. Nobody else can do it for you.
Sam, it's time. It's time to let go of what you started with the best of intentions, I believe, but what has now taken a very different, unhealthy, extremely bad path. Sam please, let it go and take some time with your father, your family of animals, your friends, your property. You might wake up and see things from a new perspective one day. You might just see what we all are seeing.
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Post by wanderlust on Jan 6, 2009 16:09:31 GMT -5
The only thing she is going to see is her easy money flying out the door. You need to understand that obviously Scam does not give a rats ass about horses.
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Post by tireddog on Jan 6, 2009 16:49:52 GMT -5
And that possibility is what kills me. It blows up all my beliefs around CBER, Sam, and saving horses via that feedlot, beliefs I have incorporated into my life over nearly four years.
The way I see it, there are many of us who took off your hands horses that we did not necessarily have the room for or the money for or the time for, but because we did not want to see them go to slaughter, we offered them a "rescue" home, which is what rescue does - saves the horse and sees that horse through to a safe, healthy, financially stable, well-researched, hopefully forever home. In a sense, Sam, a lot of us did what you should have been doing - took care of and continue to take care of the horses. You did not want the burden or expense of the horses, and so we took them. I take full responsibility for making this choice in the case of my 11 CBER horses. I would not want any one of them to not be (or have been) here. In fact, I would give just about anything to have Maple here in our safe haven right now - loved, well fed, vetted and trimmed religiously - instead of dead, having endured what must have been a horrible, painful, frightening death. That horse was deceived and robbed of an amazing life. Who is responsible for that, Sam?
So I challenge you, Sam. Which is it? Is it about saving horses, your "friends" as you referred to them to me this past July? Or is it truly about the money?
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Post by jenm on Jan 6, 2009 17:55:14 GMT -5
Approximately a year ago to date, I actually suggested to Sam that she/CBER come clean about her misdeeds and at least be honest and humble even if it's after the fact. I was hoping for a new, fresh start since there were still a lot of good people supporting her.
I now understand that the issues ran much deeper than I even fathomed and can see why that plan would not have worked.
That being said, I would still like to see the new CBER team step up rather than fling mud and hide behind the lies and deception.
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Post by kellyd on Jan 6, 2009 18:40:19 GMT -5
I have deleted this post, due to the fact that this Teacher is afraid of retaliation from CBER's members, since they have all of her personal information from her adoption application.
We will carry on behind the scenes.
And, for the record, the Teacher found in her computer, the address (it wasn't a post office box after all) where she was told to send the money orders to:
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue 440 Richartz Rd Yakima, WA 98903
Again, money orders can be cashed without going through a bank account!!!!!
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Post by rodeo51 on Jan 6, 2009 19:00:55 GMT -5
Holy Crap!!!!! the sh*t is getting deeper and stinkier
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Post by greysquirrel on Jan 6, 2009 19:03:59 GMT -5
That being said, I would still like to see the new CBER team step up rather than fling mud and hide behind the lies and deception. Jenm, as happy as I am that you, and others, are now seeing the light about CBER, I don't see the difference between this "team" and all of the previous "teams". All of the previous CBER defenders did a lot of mud flinging and hiding behind the lies, what makes this latest group of supporters any different? The previous "teams" didn't "step up" and stop the mud flinging and lies. I'm recalling a few posts that were made on the AB board after the Lavender and Meadow shootings were brought to light. forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=16900.483forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=16900.486forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=16900.489I hope someday Sam will be stopped. But I've been hoping this for a few years. Maybe now with so many others speaking out it can finally happen. Polly (mandelbrot5/Bluedog/echo)
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Post by agilitygal on Jan 6, 2009 19:16:49 GMT -5
Didn't Yasu end up with Jen (that almost killed Lucky Fred and Dark Destiny)? I remember something about that Yasu didn't work out there (smart horse to get herself out of there pronto!) Wasn't she the black mare with a white blaze? If it's the same horse, she is very lucky to have you, Kelly. Thanks! I liked her.
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Post by greysquirrel on Jan 6, 2009 19:20:45 GMT -5
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 6, 2009 19:27:12 GMT -5
Because I no longer believe in CBER and in that post I was still a wide eyed devotee.
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Post by rhythmbeads on Jan 6, 2009 19:44:14 GMT -5
Jenm, as happy as I am that you, and others, are now seeing the light about CBER, I don't see the difference between this "team" and all of the previous "teams". All of the previous CBER defenders did a lot of mud flinging and hiding behind the lies, what makes this latest group of supporters any different? The previous "teams" didn't "step up" and stop the mud flinging and lies. Yes, I would like to know the answer to that as well... I am not rejoicing in the demise of CBEr just yet. $am seems to still have the wool pulled over many folks eyes and sticky fingers in their wallets. One good con job, that's for sure. Hopefully those folks that really got screwed by their CBEr involvement will do something. While I am happy that horses were saved, I regret that I helped that organization make money hand over fist at my friends' expenses. I bought Buena (yes BOUGHT, not adopted) in August of 2004 and then spread word to many friends who subsequently made purchases. My friends were some of the lucky ones (and NOT newbie horse owners) and they have done OK, as I have. But there were just WAY too many screw-ups to just ignore. I say bravo to those who woke up. For every cent spent and e-mail you sent in support of CBEr please do the reverse and donate elsewhere and spread the news about how bad that organization truly is. Please.
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Post by Kirsten on Jan 6, 2009 19:50:27 GMT -5
greysquirrel aka mandelbrot5! i remember you and i used to despise you lol...no offense...no i see YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH!! and thank you for speaking out the best you could....i am sorry that so many turned a blind eye, including myself, but thank you for standing up for the truth. it is truly appreciated!
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Post by lorsadoon on Jan 6, 2009 20:32:06 GMT -5
Tash, instead of deleting your post you should of put an addendum to it. Dated it and explained your current feelings about CBER. Deleting posts in a thread like that only makes it harder for someone looking for the truth to figure out what was going on at the time.
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 6, 2009 20:41:29 GMT -5
Sorry Laurie... it is already done. I deleted all my ABR posts where I advocated CBER. I have absolutely no inclination to be in any way associated with continued support of CBER or CBER tactics. You are right that leaving the post and then posting an adendum would have been better, but I did not think of it in time and now it is too late.
For the record... I do *NOT* support CBER. I regret ever supporting CBER. All you folks who warned me against CBER a long time ago were RIGHT and I am SORRY for calling you liars.
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 6, 2009 20:43:51 GMT -5
Question to the former CBER volunteers….in Feb. ’08, how many volunteers/staff members lived in Yakima?? Sam M, Marlene C, John K (the rider). Jeff wasn't a volunteer/staff but he was there then... This story of Yasu is pretty standard fare... unique only in the method in which it was done and the person who it was done against. CBER has a very long and bold history of double dipping and has never showed even the slightest bit of regret except when they are caught.
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Ali
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 4
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Post by Ali on Jan 6, 2009 22:27:31 GMT -5
I'm so happy to see all the EYES finally opening to the Truth! Bravo!!!
Do I think Sam will ever stop scamming people in the horse world? No, I don't. It's been going on far too long.
"once a greasy crook saleswoman, ALWAYS a greasy crook saleswoman"
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Post by countrygirl on Jan 6, 2009 23:37:45 GMT -5
Kelly, Thank you for telling your story. It is stories like this that are needed to be able to file a formal complaint to the authorities. IMO the only way to stop Sam is to report everything to the authorities. Document everything and then present it to the authorities. The legal authorities for fraud and theft and the IRS for fraud and misrepresentation as well as improper use of donated funds. I don't know all the technical terms but it is so obvious to me that this is not the way a 501c3 charity should be run and with documented evidence I would think the authorities would agree.
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Post by jenm on Jan 6, 2009 23:58:20 GMT -5
Jenm, as happy as I am that you, and others, are now seeing the light about CBER, I don't see the difference between this "team" and all of the previous "teams". All of the previous CBER defenders did a lot of mud flinging and hiding behind the lies, what makes this latest group of supporters any different? The previous "teams" didn't "step up" and stop the mud flinging and lies. Yes, I would like to know the answer to that as well... Good question, ladies. I think the toughest part for me was in initially trying to understand exactly what was happening behind the scenes at CBER. The attacks on CBER were malicious in nature and while I understand the emotion involved, I could only ever catch bits and pieces of what had gone on in the past. The mistake I made was in not contacting someone and trying to understand the facts behind the attacks. The majority of the complaints about CBER seemed to come out on fund raising threads on ABR but the information presented was vague. As someone trained in journalism, I need to see facts clearly presented without emotion. And, like most other people, I didn't want to see the horses lose. I thought if CBER ceased operations, the horses would not stand a chance. That is what kept me involved for as long as I was. I still don't know a lot about the BS people have experienced, and even when I was deep in the trenches with Sam (or so I thought), I later found out there were still all kinds of secrets and lies going on. I think part of the problem is there is not/has not been a central source for all of the complaints about CBER. Off the top of my head, we have ABR, ICERS, PEC Discussion, The Truth is out1, and now this section on the RO Board, as well as various blogs. I think there needs to be more stories like Kelly's posted in one place in an organized manner. Things are much to random and to a naive CBER supporter who wants to save a horse, some of these threads seem like a lynch mob. What scares me now the most is that rather than surrounding herself with intelligent people, Sam is now gathering people who have criminal backgrounds. She has blown through the good, decent people who really wanted to help. I have a story to tell of how I was embarrassed by Sam's actions when I encouraged someone I know to adopt a CBER horse for her daughter. Stories like Kelly's and mine need to be easily found and available as facts, rather than blatant attacks. Also, I don't have a problem going back to old ABR threads and editing my posts to publicly declare that I am ashamed of my involvement with CBER.
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Post by rhythmbeads on Jan 7, 2009 0:01:36 GMT -5
I have a story to tell of how I was embarrassed by Sam's actions when I encouraged someone I know to adopt a CBER horse for her daughter. Stories like Kelly's and mine need to be easily found and available as facts, rather than blatant attacks. There doesn't need to be a central repository for stories. Everyone needs to tell their stories EVERYWHERE. The more outlets the better. Start a blog, post on message boards. Tell your side of the story. It's your truth; you lived it; tell it!
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Post by jenm on Jan 7, 2009 0:05:02 GMT -5
It would be nice to see CBER continue to help horses in the future with one exception - people who truely care about the horses running it. I think most of the people involved (past and present) truely do care about the horses. As we all know it is "the President" that needs to be replaced. Everything about CBER needs to be replaced. I too, would like to see someone run a rescue out of that feedlot, but I think Sam and Chuck are so much "in bed" together, that it would be difficult for an honest group to come in. I'm not saying it can't be done, but based on what I'm learning, Sam and Chuck have a symbiotic relationship based on making money off innocent people with big hearts. I don't know if Chuck would even welcome a straight up group that only wants to save horses, not help him get rich.
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Post by countrygirl on Jan 7, 2009 1:17:09 GMT -5
I don't know if Chuck would even welcome a straight up group that only wants to save horses, not help him get rich.[/quote]
In the end Chuck cares about making money. I am sure he would prefer to make it (money that is) with Sam but in the end, I doubt he would turn down working with us if Sam was legally out of the the rescue business and unable to work with Chuck.
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Post by TashGaia on Jan 7, 2009 1:23:14 GMT -5
Chuck has told people in the past that he would work with others if something happened to Sam/CBER. He is no fool and he makes more on the rescue horses then he would ever make by sending them to slaughter. With all the KBs every where worrying about the possible coming end of exporting to slaughter you can bet your bottom dollar that KBs like Chuck who have "alternate" avenues to sell their horses are not going to be burning any bridges.
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Post by wanderlust on Jan 7, 2009 9:07:01 GMT -5
I think rescues are the best thing that ever happened to KB's and feedlots. Keep those dollars rolling in so they can go buy more horses, next thing you know they are searching to buy the types of horses that rescues like. They are not idiots.
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