Team Rosy- She's a California girl now

[calypso]

There are a LOT emotions swirling around. Hurt and angry people on both sides. Several people have talked about wanting to channel their feelings into doing something constructive. They mentioned putting together a "team" to do rescue in the way they want to/thought it was being done. Transparent. Accountable.

So, here's a potential opportunity to get started right away.

I've been corresponding with a woman about a mare. Here is her story:

She's a 6 year old ex-race horse. About 2 years ago she was at an action yard and she was down. Too sick and weak to get up and load up into the slaughter truck. An auction worker, instead of getting her a bullet, decided to care for her a few days and see if she would get strong enough to load up - to go to the workers house. She did, and she spent the next nearly-year getting stronger. From there she went to a home where it was hoped she would live out her days. But, she has some behavior issues that make her unsuitable for a child. (Mostly ex-track type stuff) and they - being a typical family - have neither the means to maintain an "extra " horse, nor the means to keep everyone safe with the unpredictable behavior.

They really like this horse, but they are not a good fit for each other so she needs a new home. Her health is basically good, although she has some feet issues still. (All four abscessed in the past - she's recently been getting barefoot care). She's been ridden - even been on the trail. But she needs a lot of groundwork before she can safely go further under saddle.

Would anyone like to put together a team to care for her and get her ready for her forever home? Look at what a wonderful job watermarkfarm and Team PayDay did. But, it took time even though PayDay came in pretty good shape and, as I recall, went into the show ring pretty quickly! So, she would be a project.

Yes, she is not in imminent danger of shipping to slaughter - this family wants to do right by her - but without the appropriate care and training and placement - she could have the truck again in her future. And, if an appropriate home doesn't come forward, she will be put down this week. (I'm late to the party - she's been looking to rehome her for awhile) They can't continue indefinitely, they aren't willing to shove her off on just anyone (who might lack the skills/resources to do right by her), and they aren't willing to send her through auction, or sell her directly to a KB. So, in my book they are being responsible owners.

So, what do you think? If there is interest, I can put together a plan. But the key requirements would be: commitment, consistency, accountability, and transparency - for all parties.

And the decision needs to be made very quickly if it's to be for this mare. She is scheduled to be put down on Monday.

Caly

mta for spelling and content.

[Admin]

Excellent idea! Start the ball rolling! Tell them we'll take her.

Sign up

We need:

A re-hab home
Vet funds - PEC will pay for Vet
Hay funds
Transport

[hytyme]

Where is this mare located?

[piopico]

Per Caly, in Oregon.

[bridgetah]

Maybe Joe Shelton would take her? It's worth a try.

[calypso]

Thanks for the suggestion Anne. He might, but he is scrambling to find solutions for horses right in his backyard. Horses that are in real danger of starving to death, or being shipped to Mexico.

While this mare only has another day to find a solution, her death - if she meets it - will be quick and painless. As someone who is like Joe (in taking the "lost causes," only with cats) it's hard for me to justify taking a slot at his place, and letting another horse - who's owner isn't as responsible - die a horrific death through starvation or shipment to Mexico.

[Admin]

How much are they asking for her?

[calypso]

That's not the problem. The ongoing care is the problem. We need to assume that she's going to need 6+ months to find a new home unless someone who has the skills/room/money just appears.

mta: The issue - for the owner - isn't the selling price. She wants to make sure she's going somewhere appropriate where she's going to get what she needs. She's willing to give her a swift, painless death rather "just get rid of her."

The issue - for us - is do we have a plan, and the resources for what may turn out to be a short turn-around, or a very long one.

[calypso]

Okay, we have someone who is willing to go get her. A couple places that can keep her for a *short time*.

What we need is:

Someplace for her to be fostered.

Someone to work with her. She needs groundwork. Lots of it.

Then someone to work with her under saddle.

And, as always, financial support. If she comes down her (SF Bay area) it will cost ~$500/month for routine care, assuming pasture board. We have to feed most of the year. Our pastures are lovely right now, but in another month they'll be cr@p. (see below for breakdown) The need would be less is someone can donate board, or has the place to add her in to their "herd" I am willing to be the point person to make sure everything happens and that everything is done transparently with full accountability. (in my "other life" I'm an accountant). And, I'm willing to work with her on the ground, but I am not the person to work with her under saddle. And, economically, I cannot take on another horse myself. Three are my limit as long as I live here and have to board.

rough est:

$230 pasture board where my girls are
$8 wormer ($15 every other month)
$15 vax (2X year, full Davis recommended series~$90 each time including vet exam)
$45 trims - I'm pricing this for every month. I hope she'll do well barefoot, but if not, shoes are $100. So the $45 a month sort of splits the difference. Her feet need help still.
$50 grain (incl supplements and vitamins - cutiepiepmu would be the one calling these shots)
$150 hay (yes, ours is expensive!)

Total = ~$500/month minimum.

Additional if she needs to be in a stall or paddock. Ditto for any emergency vet bills.

This is what it takes to sponser a horse, at least around here.

Thoughts?

[Admin]

I will cover 250.00 now!

I will send 250.00 a month for as long as it takes.

[calypso]

Thank you!

[djrepp]

My suggestion would be to have her evaluated to see what her issues are before committing to her rehab and care. A OTTB in good shape is too much horse for the average person let alone one who has been off for a good while and has other issues. It is far better to save the good ones who can go on to a good future without a huge investment only to find out that you have a horse who is no good. Sometimes horses sustain injuries that are not obvious. Sometimes humans create the behavior problems. Look at this horse very carefully before you commit to a horse that will be beyond your budget and means. I would suggest getting in touch with Reina if this horse is in the Bay area and she can refer you to the appropriate people who can help. There are too many red flags going off here. Who in the hell would think a 6 year old OTTB would be suitable for a kid, the word dangerous, the word bad feet. A lot more ground work? If she is a tattooed TB, she is broke. Most TB's are not trained using ground work. If she has any abilities she needs to be ridden, ridden, ridden by a person experienced in retraining track horses. This can cost a $1000 a month and probably more in Ca. I love horses and like your idea but get an assessment first before you take any horse fitting this description. And know also that well-meaning people also say they will help and sometimes get into a difficult situation and can't, so then who pays the bills. Jerry told me to tell you Hi!

[Admin]

There isn't time for assessment on her. 50/50 like all rescues. I'd hate to see a good horse loose it's life only because it's not kid safe!

[wendyp]

Would someone who retired from racing as a trainer or exerciser be an appropriate person to help with a horse like this? I don't know the proper names for what people do at race tracks - sorry - but if someone had ridden them for years, swam them in the ocean, etc, what would that make them? Exercise boy seems childish for an Adult! They would be familiar with TB behaviors, but I don't know if that makes it a good match or not?

WendyP/Bend, OR

[Admin]

Exercise Rider ;D

[calypso]

Wendy...do tell! Do you have someone in mind?

And, while I agree with every point djrepp has made, I'd like to clarify a bit, and add a bit.

The mare is broke to ride. She's even been ridden on trails. She's calm and sweet most of the time. As Diane says, track horses aren't trained with ground work. But, a horse-as-companion animal needs to have good ground manners in order to be safe to handle. While this mare has exhibited some behavior that is "dangerous" she is not a dangerous mare. She needs to learn to lead well, to respect space, not shoulder-in, to load herself (get in the trailer without having to be led in), and to spook in place if she "needs" to spook at all. (no spook is best....but we are talking about a OTTB here, and some of them just don't have the "normal" upbringing that allows a horse to learn how settle themselves.)

Let me use Kaleigh as an example. She's fundamentally a nice sweet mare. But she came with a full set of track manners. She would shoulder in. She'd mow you down. She'd pin her ears and lunge at Greg when he'd feed in the morning. She'd walk all over Scott. She'd kick with no warning. In fact, she'd kick if you so much as looked at her flank.

She needed to go to "charm school" first. Now she leads well, loads well, respects space, ground ties pretty well (we're still working on that) and won't kick at me anymore. I make that distinction because she will occasionally kick, but she goes to great pains to make sure she's not kicking in my direction, and she'll give plenty of warning before she does even that.

Here's an except from an email I sent to the mare's owner earlier today:

"I have an OTTB who sounds like your girl. Kaleigh was sweet and calm most of the time but would have freak-outs and was a world class kicker. A couple weeks ago she got into a rumble with my other girl, Angel (mares!) and had a small cut back next to her virginia (ow!). I was trying to clean it up and my friend was helping hold her. She lifted her front leg to discourage her from kicking me. So, she didn't kick. She BUCKED! She got serious air, while bearing all her weight on one leg! My friend was shocked "OMG, I can't believe she did that!!!" I turned around smiling like a proud mom - "Told ya!" ;D I suppose that wasn't something I should have been proud about, but she has learned not to kick out at me, and it just cracked me up that she bucked instead. "

The mare's owner and I have exchanged a lot of emails about her and I have a feel for what her issues are. I think this mare deserves a chance, and I'd like to see her get it. If she needs to be put down for a tangible reason, then that'll happen. But to be put down without a chance. That seems wrong.

And, yes, you are right about the cost. But, I brought this to the board because there were discussions about people wanting to band together to do auction rescue, or something - anything - to be helping the horses, especially for those for felt they could no longer throw their support where they previous had.

Auction horses need to be saved, no doubt about it. But here is a mare that is going to be put down in 2 days (1 now) for which we have a history and a sense of what she needs. It's always a crap shoot, but this one is a little less of one than an auction horse and I thought it might be a good place to start. She needs groundwork - and lots of it - first, and then she'll need to be ridden a lot. She still pulls on a snaffle, so her re-education has been minimal. She's currently be ridden in a halter and leadline with no incidents - so that tells you how calm and co-operative her basic personality is. I can do her groundwork if need be - turns out I'm actually kind of good at it. But I am not the right person to work her under saddle.

If we can get 10 people to commit to $25 a month, (or 5 to commit $50) to add to PEC's offer, then she can come down here if need be. (But it sounds like Wendy might have someone in mind?) Check out Kaleigh's 3, (or is it 4 threads) and you'll see that I OVERDUE the updates! LOL! And, I'm willing to do the paperwork to set up a charitable trust to handle the finances because my hope would be that she would be the first of many that the people on this board would band together to save, to evaluation, to rehabilitate, and rehome.

Whew - that was longer than the "bit" I intended.

[bridgetah]

IMO, all horses can benefit from ground work.

[calypso]

I completely agree Anne.

This mare's life now depends on it.

[djrepp]

If Kate saw this she would be furious. Hue Grant has excellent ground manners. He leads well, respects space and does not kick. These behaviors are not tolerated on the track. Track horses are broke but they take the bit differently. This is just typical TB behavior when these horses are handled by someone who does not know how to handle a horse or this horse has some issues. She could have pain issues. If they like this horse and are aware of your intentions, they will give you a few days to get someone out to do an assessment. I will send you Reina's phone number. She or Stephanie might be able to come out and tell you what you are getting into. Never give a TB grain unless you are working the sh*t out of them. Grain will make them too hot. These horses are bred to run. When they are retraining them they spend hours trotting them just to get them tired. Hue is 5 now and he can go forever. And that's not walking before he even breaks out into a sweat. And most TB's do best with shoes if they are going to be ridden on trails or ridden hard. Your budget seems realistic but nowhere in there is the provision for having a trainer work with this horse. Have you even been to see this horse? Call Kate or Jerry to. You have Jerry's phone number.

[calypso]

I know you're concerned I'm going to get "stuck" with a problem horse, but I am not. I am not offering to take this horse personally. I am offering to head up a team of people to take on a rehabilitation project. How is this any different than going to the auction and buying some random mare to rescue her? There is no opportunity for assessment there either. In fact, I know a lot more about this mare now that I would ever know about an auction or FL horse.

The key phrase is "handled by someone who does not handle a horse, or this horse has some issues."

*That* is why the owner would choose to put her down rather than put her in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to handle her.

And, yes, I know track horses take the bit differently. That is what I was referring to.

[calypso]

I am so glad Hue handles well. That wasn't my experience with Kaleigh. Nor was it my cousin's experience with her track horse. Nor is it the experience of most of the people on the yahoo OTTB rehab group.

Perhaps the horses handle well on the ground by "track people", but it is a common refrain amongst "non-track people" that track horses "have no ground manners." I belong to the latter group. But, I wonder if being handled by track people results in better behavior because they "speak the same language". Once I stopped expecting K to act like a ranch QH or a "show" horse, once we started "speaking the same language," she's been a dream.

In Kaleigh's case, it meant dialing down my communication - being more gentle - just the opposite of what most people, including a couple of trainers, were telling me. I don't know if that is the norm, but last weekend I observed that the grooms, jockeys, pony riders - all were very subtle in their directions to the horses. I wonder if we non-track people are doing the horse-equivalent of "yelling" and that is why we get "bad behavior" from our off-track horses.

And, when K exhibited the same behaviors as this mare apparently does, Jamie (jtjedi) was the one who told me "Ground work - and LOTS of it" and she was absolutely right.

Yeah, I have his number, but I know he has his hands full with his own horses. He's not in the business of rescuing animals, and I respect that. That's my gig. ;D

[wendyp]

admin said:

Exercise Rider ;D

Thanks Dean! I just knew that they probably weren't called 'boys'!

I had met a retired Exercise Rider a couple of years ago, and thought he might be willing to help with her, but he isn't going to be the type to put the groundwork in, and that needs to come first. I suck at groundwork!

WendyP/Bend, OR

[jessiegirl1981]

I had the same problems with Desi she was very rude and disrespectful. She had no manners at all. Now we call her the anti tb she is on grain barefoot and the best behaved in the barn. She is fantastic and is my general riding horse. It can be done. I didnt send her to a trainer I just had patience and the two of us worked it out she is fantastic now. She is also very lazy!!! She also warns about kicking cracks me up she lifts and about ten minutes later it might move backwards maybe if she doesnt need a nap

[calypso]

Woo Hoo Wendy! Would he charge? How much - we'd need to get that into the budget. Or would he donate and get great publicity? Can you check that out?

Yes, I can do groundwork and then send her back up for under saddle. (I love groundwork!)

BUT

Bringing her down here increases the cost-to-maintain considerably since I have to board.

Is there anyone else who loves groundwork, loves OTTB's, and has a place of their own - or cheaper board - who'd like to take that role?

My personal monthly horse costs are already ~$1500/month so I really cannot take on the financial side of it.

Here's what she needs:

Pick-up - done (Wendy)

Temporary home - done (Wendy volunteered Hystyle; also Hytyme can take her short term while Coggins is being done if she's coming to CA)

Foster (day-to-day care) -

Groundwork (ideally same person as foster, but not necessary as long as GW person lives nearby) -

Undersaddle - maybe done (maybe Wendy's friend? - would he volunteer or charge?)

Fundraising -

Financial reporting - done (Caly)

Progress reports (foster/trainer) -

Team Leader (makes sure everyone follows through on what they've committed to do) - done (Caly)

[jessiegirl1981]

sure would be awesome if someone local could take her in and work with her I dont think she is going to need much I have a GREAT feeling about this girl. She is in no way a problem chilc

[wendyp]

Hi Caly,

I'm sure my friend would put a few rides on her at no charge...........after that, I don't know. I haven't asked him about this yet, so I am just guessing.

Bend is definitely 'horse country' but it is mostly QH's............so I'm not sure I will find a qualified OTTB trainer to help with her. I do know of a good Parelli type trainer who could put the groundwork on her at $45 hour............. However, my biggest concern about keeping her in Bend is the rehoming. This is QH country - that's why it's so hard to place a TB. I think between Hystyle and I we could keep her until the first of June (with just minimal board cost - I think Hystyle charges $125-150 a month), and then maybe she could have some of the groundwork done (@$45 an hour) and I can have Kathleen Lindley work with her on the Trailer Loading issue at the end of May when she is at my house for 6 days of clinics- this wouldn't cost anything, I would just slip this mare into one of my riding spots. Then, maybe she could hitch a ride down to you with Jamie Thomas, or Shelley Simmons - they will both be heading down to the Mustang Challenge in Sacramento........... I think people who network with others in their discipline will have a better chance at rehoming her. Even though she has been out on the trails, that doesn't necessarily mean she would be a good trail horse.....time will tell.

Have you heard if the other gal came and looked at her or not?

WendyP/Bend, OR

[Admin]

I have 6 horses in front of her but I'd be happy to do the finish work on her.

[toeps]

Anything I can do Caly?

[bridgetah]

You might get help w/ground training from some of the mustang folks - we're heavy into groundwork. That's what I enjoy doing most.

IMO, very few horses have the level of ground training I aspire to for my horses. A week w/Wilhelm and three Jerry Tindell clinics have shown me what's possible and there's no going back.

Many of the mustang crowd have been to these same types of clinics. It's worth a try.

[toeps]

Lots of great suggestions! Caly has posted a detailed list of needs to rescue and support this mare until she is ready for a forever home. I know I don't have any "extra" money but I know of a few things I can go without for a bit - I am pledging $20 a month for 6 months. Anybody who can do the same and be accountable for it will be appreciated! We really need to get this girl on a path to rehab and cannot do so until her care is going to be covered.

Please help however you can! Even $5 a month is not too little!

Thank you! You are all SO wonderful to do this! Let's make sure this sweet girl is not another gone and forgotten!