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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 12:06:52 GMT -5
The recent one that I think is interesting is where the new mom to two CBER horses tells folks that only now 10 days after her purchase of the horses is her application being checked... and she already has the bill of sale for both horses. This gal is an adopter and she is flat out point to the fact that this is a screw up and she even says as much, but the CBER folks can't seem to get it. Another gal even points it out and asks why she has a bill of sale instead of an adoption contract, and folks are like "oh, wonderful job to the apps department". Um, maybe wonderful job to the apps department, but your PS sucks if you are letting folks adopt horses before their app has even been processed. This adopter is completely right when she says: I guess they were truthful in their meeting minutes when they said that if someone paid cash for a horse they could have it even if they weren't approved to adopt. Sad that their own members and adopters are pointing this out to them and they don't get it. Someone pointed out that this would happen back in November and they banned her, but apparently she was right. I guess it is easier to ban someone then to deal with the questions that they raise... but then that might explain why in the last two weeks 7 very long term members (including ones who have supported CBER since 2005) have deleted their accounts from that board. People who paid cash for horse even if app pending get 1st choice Does this mean that if someone is willing to pay cash up front for a horse that they may adopt that horse before their application has even been checked fully out?
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Post by rodeo51 on Dec 16, 2008 13:11:31 GMT -5
They might as well sell the horses and not worry about an adoption contract. Looks like that is pretty much what there doing anyway. I have a friend that boards her horses out where I keep Katey and she emailed me the other day letting me know who things are going out at the barn with the weather and all. This is what she had to say about CBER and there QT cost
I finally got caught up with the goings on on the rescue boards. I really really really like one of the horses that CBER has. Love his movement, Dancer is what they named him. If their freakin board wasn't so high for quarantine I would get him.
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Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2008 13:12:14 GMT -5
Please understand that is why we are here. To save horses. We are tired of seeing people spend thousands of dollars on this rescue to only see the horse they had paid for to save be shipped off to slaughter and CBER pocket the money. THAT IS WRONG
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Post by kellyd on Dec 16, 2008 14:23:39 GMT -5
... but then that might explain why in the last two weeks 7 very long term members (including ones who have supported CBER since 2005) have deleted their accounts from that board. quote] Tash, other than Kirsten, are you able to say who the others are?
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 14:28:01 GMT -5
Well, I can, but if they have deleted their accounts from CBER they may not want their names listed as ever being a part of them. I will PM you a list, but not post it publicly.
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Post by Kirsten on Dec 16, 2008 14:34:39 GMT -5
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shell
Groovy Groom
Posts: 20
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Post by shell on Dec 16, 2008 14:38:10 GMT -5
So did I read that right? Horses that individuals have sent their money to bail & pull off the lot but have no official adopter are being sent back to the slaughter yard & being shipped and CBER is keeping those funds?
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Post by kellyd on Dec 16, 2008 14:46:16 GMT -5
So did I read that right? Horses that individuals have sent their money to bail & pull off the lot but have no official adopter are being sent back to the slaughter yard & being shipped and CBER is keeping those funds? My question: do they also 'sell' back these horses to chuck & keep that money too??? cber doesn't just 'give' them back to chuck, do they?
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 14:58:33 GMT -5
So did I read that right? Horses that individuals have sent their money to bail & pull off the lot but have no official adopter are being sent back to the slaughter yard & being shipped and CBER is keeping those funds? Heck, there are cases when there were official adopters and the horses were still sent back and then the adopter was told that someone else adopted the horse. They had whole fake adopters in the old DB where anytime that happened the horse would be listed under one of those fake people. The other big one is to send horses out to Wayne to be shot, shipped, or used as broodmares for the rest of their lives... 'cause ya know, that is just exactly the kind of thing rescues ought to be promoting.
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Post by rodeo51 on Dec 16, 2008 15:04:05 GMT -5
Kelly I deleted my account after working with CBER since 05. I did not like how I was treated by the new BOD when they destaffed me after I helped create the new board. My mom had been ill and passed away and Sam knew I wouldn't be around because of this for awhile. They could have taken the time to contact me...it wasn't like they didn't know my email address or who I was. The scary part is...the new BOD has no history on who the bad adopters are or other history because all who knew have left. If they arn't checking before they let horses go to homes....then they are going to have problems...and the horses are going to lose in the long run.
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 15:09:52 GMT -5
Yup. Just like how they were talking about how great Joyfulnoise is... well, I'm sure a great many folks on this board remember Joyfulnoise and the fiasco with KivaGlow and Symphony... but apparently the new CBER BOD doesn't. Joyfulnoise was DECLINED for what happened by Sam herself... and Sam does not decline many adopters. But now she has more CBER horses thanks to a new CBER BOD and they seem to think she is the greatest. Even as I post this, they will likely not have a clue as to what I am talking about... they will have to come here and read through our threads to try and figure out what the deal was. They will find some stuff, but most was behind the scenes... and there is no one left at CBER who remembers what happened behind those closed doors. Not a single current CBER volunteer has any idea of those things because they were not a part of CBER and were not privy to what was going on. The entire CBER that used to be is gone now. I find it sadly amusing when I see people over on CBER now talking about how great CBER is for saving one of their old horses... when everyone who was involved in CBER then is now gone and all that is left is the name - even the history has been erased. Oh well. They will learn... again... or maybe not. The problem with refusing to address past problems is that you repeat them... again... and again... and again. Ignorance and blind devotion is a luxury that a rescue cannot afford and it's only the horses that suffer.
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Post by agilitygal on Dec 16, 2008 15:47:33 GMT -5
Sounds like CBER is trying to get themselves into legal hot water. Not only is what they have done (and probably are still doing) not moral, ethical, nor right. . .I think some of you with direct knowledge and experience have grounds for legal proceedings. This won't stop until they are brought up on these things.
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shell
Groovy Groom
Posts: 20
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Post by shell on Dec 16, 2008 17:41:52 GMT -5
Didnt KivaGlow ship, or am I thinking of another horse.
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Post by earthkq7 on Dec 16, 2008 17:43:50 GMT -5
Seriously, what is the deal here? Can someone sum this up? Kirsten has been amazing to me and my horse during her rescue, what happened?
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 17:45:45 GMT -5
Didnt KivaGlow ship, or am I thinking of another horse. Yes.
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 17:49:33 GMT -5
Seriously, what is the deal here? Can someone sum this up? Kirsten has been amazing to me and my horse during her rescue, what happened? Kirsten finally got fed up of the unethical and often illegal things that were going on at CBER. She stood up for different folks that were asking legitimate questions and so CBER branded her a troublemaker and demoted her. Then when she challenged their course of action she was banned and deleted. They have since been trying to shut her up from telling the truth of what she saw by sending her various and unfounded threats and libel.
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shell
Groovy Groom
Posts: 20
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Post by shell on Dec 16, 2008 17:50:46 GMT -5
So what was the fiasco w/Joyfulnoise & Kivaglow & Symphony? It would be nice to hear the true facts from the original source, but if nobody is still around from CBER at that time and they dont want to let their membership know the full facts why doesnt somebody here tell the tale. Im really curious
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 16, 2008 17:56:26 GMT -5
I think you can still find the public threads on this board, but I will write up a summary of the whole event and the following events by which more CBER horses ended up with her, but it will probably have to wait until I have more time after the holidays. I have dozens of emails, posts, notes etc that I need to compile into one nice easy to read document. Lord knows I don't want to post it directly from my mind and risk getting some small parcel wrong and risk that CBER will send me one of their oh-so-famous "shut up" letters threatening legal action.
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Post by Tate on Dec 16, 2008 18:44:31 GMT -5
They might as well sell the horses and not worry about an adoption contract. Looks like that is pretty much what there doing anyway. I have a friend that boards her horses out where I keep Katey and she emailed me the other day letting me know who things are going out at the barn with the weather and all. This is what she had to say about CBER and there QT cost I finally got caught up with the goings on on the rescue boards. I really really really like one of the horses that CBER has. Love his movement, Dancer is what they named him. If their freakin board wasn't so high for quarantine I would get him. I do not support CBER since Lavendar/Meadow issue, however If your friend likes this horse, it may be a chance for a home, maybe she should send in an app. He might get bailed out before shipping.
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Post by Kirsten on Dec 16, 2008 21:28:38 GMT -5
Seriously, what is the deal here? Can someone sum this up? Kirsten has been amazing to me and my horse during her rescue, what happened? Oh Kate....I've pm'd you back...
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Post by leosolis on Dec 17, 2008 2:07:19 GMT -5
ME & YOU both...they deleted my account also. I also wondered where the new members were coming from in the last couple weeks..THANK YOU KIRSTEN>..
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Post by lorsadoon on Dec 17, 2008 8:15:10 GMT -5
I wish when they banned someone, they would delete their account. I am still getting their mass emailings and I want it to stop. I cant go back and do it myself.
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Post by TashGaia on Dec 17, 2008 10:05:19 GMT -5
LOL! Too funny that they delete and ban Shawna when she has still had two CBER foster horses in her care. I wonder if she should start billing them monthly for their care since she is no longer a CBER member and was deleted without warning or note. I know I would! I wonder if they knew she had those horses when they banned her, because either way it is bad...
A: They knew she had the foster horses and banned her anyways...
or
B: They don't have a clue where any of their foster horses are...
CBER is always bragging that they have rescued over 3,500 horses (which is bullcrap by the way), but I wonder how many they can find now. Sure as heck know they aren't doing any follow ups or site checks on old horses...
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Post by Tockita on Dec 17, 2008 10:55:16 GMT -5
I wish when they banned someone, they would delete their account. I am still getting their mass emailings and I want it to stop. I cant go back and do it myself. You can mark it as spam, and your mail system will trash future emails from them. Does it allow replies? Or just email them and ask to be removed, by law they must stop sending them if you ask. Personally there were times I did not agree with Sam's thinking and decisions, but saw it as her wanting to avoid drama. Sometimes as predicted (Adam) her decision led to more crap then if she had just been open about it in the first place.. (BTW does anyone know where Adam is?) I know she was honest about somethings... she never to my knowledge ever said she would never send a horse back to Chucks. No matter how many times it was asked. Our issue is a bit different.. Laurie adopted China who was advertised as having a breeders certificate. She adopted her for her daughter after her adopter could not pay for her QT. No certificate was ever sent despite email and phone requests. We were told the papers were either with Shelly or the original adopter. Then we heard someone had seen the certificate still in Sams office but still it was not sent... Angi got Blossom (and her papers in 06) and placed her here after working with her, but when Jesse sent in Blossoms papers they got a letter back from AQHA that the horse was owned and registered to someone else. I looked her up on AQHA and she was transferred to someone else at the same time she was coming off the lot. They are going to ask AQHA to investigate where the other person got the horse and papers from, and will be advised that Blossom came from CBER and Chuck. She had already been DNA'd so... they may have to have her DNA redone to find out who has the REAL Sweet Wampin Voo Doo. We are happy to have had Tiffany/Farnley for the time we did. I love my goofy little rez baby, and Cordelia has learned to love. Blair, Spirit, Calypso/Starlit, Muffin, Agape, Faith/Faye, and so many others are happy and healthy here in So Cal so I can't call it a failure. I can't even say I am against a non profit paying a salary to someone working full time to operate it, or paying for help to care for the horses. Horses are a 24/7 job, but you should be honest about it. Would I still take a horse off the feedlot.. if I had room, and I could afford to get it here.. yes. Because the horses deserve a chance.
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Post by chatty on Dec 17, 2008 20:58:25 GMT -5
I'm so blessed to have rescued Sky and Askhim...And Bob drives by the feedlot ( Mr. Walker's)as fast as he can...Knows that a look will be one coming home...
chatty
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Post by lorsadoon on Dec 17, 2008 21:15:20 GMT -5
I wish when they banned someone, they would delete their account. I am still getting their mass emailings and I want it to stop. I cant go back and do it myself. You can mark it as spam, and your mail system will trash future emails from them. Does it allow replies? Or just email them and ask to be removed, by law they must stop sending them if you ask. Personally there were times I did not agree with Sam's thinking and decisions, but saw it as her wanting to avoid drama. Sometimes as predicted (Adam) her decision led to more crap then if she had just been open about it in the first place.. (BTW does anyone know where Adam is?) I know she was honest about somethings... she never to my knowledge ever said she would never send a horse back to Chucks. No matter how many times it was asked. Our issue is a bit different.. Laurie adopted China who was advertised as having a breeders certificate. She adopted her for her daughter after her adopter could not pay for her QT. No certificate was ever sent despite email and phone requests. We were told the papers were either with Shelly or the original adopter. Then we heard someone had seen the certificate still in Sams office but still it was not sent... Angi got Blossom (and her papers in 06) and placed her here after working with her, but when Jesse sent in Blossoms papers they got a letter back from AQHA that the horse was owned and registered to someone else. I looked her up on AQHA and she was transferred to someone else at the same time she was coming off the lot. They are going to ask AQHA to investigate where the other person got the horse and papers from, and will be advised that Blossom came from CBER and Chuck. She had already been DNA'd so... they may have to have her DNA redone to find out who has the REAL Sweet Wampin Voo Doo. We are happy to have had Tiffany/Farnley for the time we did. I love my goofy little rez baby, and Cordelia has learned to love. Blair, Spirit, Calypso/Starlit, Muffin, Agape, Faith/Faye, and so many others are happy and healthy here in So Cal so I can't call it a failure. I can't even say I am against a non profit paying a salary to someone working full time to operate it, or paying for help to care for the horses. Horses are a 24/7 job, but you should be honest about it. Would I still take a horse off the feedlot.. if I had room, and I could afford to get it here.. yes. Because the horses deserve a chance. The last I heard, Adam was in California with the gal who eventually ended up with Ebony and Ivory. (Ebony and Ivory were put to sleep a few months ago). I do not have a problem with someone who runs a nonprofit drawing a salary. The problem is with that person lying about taking money from the nonprofit. We will have to agree to disagree about Sam. You say she did not want drama, I say she did not want to get caught with her hand in the cookie jar. Or get called on the carpet because she sent horses back to Chuck. She did not want to get caught in a lie, period. And there are/were so many lies. Most of us are happy with our CBER horses and would not trade them in for anything, but there are plenty of people who had problems with the horses they adopted and almost all of them did not recieve any help from CBER.
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shell
Groovy Groom
Posts: 20
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Post by shell on Dec 18, 2008 11:36:11 GMT -5
Just a question, and this might make some people mad but Im going to ask it anyways......So if I adopted a horse from CBER with only a picture and a brief description on a web page and then got the horse home and it wasnt what I had imagined it would be, why would I expect anybody from the rescue to help me? Last time I checked there was a disclaimer that the horses were purchased "as is". When I adopted mine I never touched him at all and when I did go over to see him being rode, the first thing he did was rear up. Never once did I think to ask for help from the rescue, I figured it was my bad decision on buying a horse sight unseen. He turned out to be a terrific horse, but come on aside from relisting him for sale what could I have expected the rescue to do with them being over 100 miles from where I live?
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Post by beckybee on Dec 18, 2008 12:11:10 GMT -5
Shell, I completely understand your position. I too am one of those "I'm an adult and made this decision and will stand by that" type of people. I have 4 cber horses and I love all 4 and would never send them back to cber - they are my responsibility.
On the other hand, CBER is a rescue. Most rescues (horse, dog, cat, bird, etc.) will take back any animal they adopted out, no questions asked, and so it is expected that cber would too.
I have to say that after I had a horrible riding accident with one of mine I did talk to Sam about taking him back. Sam even offered to have him picked up from me for free even though I am in California.
I know that they will put him down if he goes back up there instead of putting training on him, so I am keeping him. If I ever have to get rid of him, I will put him down myself. I can't rehome him because anyone capable of handling him wouldn't want him, and his behavior on the ground is too misleading in contrast to how he is ridden saddled that someone else will get hurt.
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Post by mtangel on Dec 18, 2008 12:22:35 GMT -5
I think an issue is how CBER misrepresented the ability of horses. Not all adopters are/were able to visit the horse before choosing to adopt, and when they were in possession of the horse it was not as it was represented to them. I believe in that case you should be able to return the horse. There were many that I've witnessed over the years that were adopted as calm, child safe horses that, in fact, were not. There were many that were sold as sound/healthy (outside of feedlot crap) that ended up not being as represented.
Please correct me if I am wrong old CBER followers, as I have never adopted a horse from CBER but have followed them for the last 3 years.
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Post by michellep on Dec 18, 2008 12:52:14 GMT -5
I adopted Turtle sight unseen, this was his description (for the most part, not word for word) "gentle, does not ride well". You know what he didnt, Turtle didnt know crap about riding....and the only time that I ever saw him was when we drove to Yakima to see Jeff ride him and he reared up. So I cant say that CBER misrepresented him at all, it was very accurate description of him. After having Turtle for almost a year now I can say that his attitude when he is in a group of horses is VERY different than when he is by himself. He is very nervous when other horses are around, they could have listed that but didnt. I think the feedlot is a really bad place to try and assess horses abilities/attitudes because when they get to their homes in a lot of cases they are totally different. The "as is" disclaimer should be taken for what it is, buyer beware. In some cases they are on the feedlot for a reason.....
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