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Post by beckybee on Mar 18, 2009 10:57:23 GMT -5
I saw there are less than 200 members of the new board. I'm sure a lot of those are "trolls" - some are probably just lookey-lous. That doesn't leave very many active supporters. I wonder if Sam is finally starting to get it.
Also, to all of the new rats jumping off the CBER ship: You aren't killing horses by not helping CBER. Use your new found time and money to help horses locally.
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Post by agilitygal on Mar 18, 2009 11:22:40 GMT -5
Yes. There are so many ways to help the horses. SOS horse rescue is one of them. Lots of neighborhood horses our there, everywhere. Those who can and have the physical space available and are active in rescue work could use help. I have none. . .so, from afar, I support with my small financial donations. Many small donations result in successful rescue efforts.
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Post by swissgrl on Mar 18, 2009 11:44:16 GMT -5
You can also check the "Horses Needing Help" section on this forum, always lots of CL horses, or Friends horses listed that need help.
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Post by chatty on Mar 18, 2009 12:27:22 GMT -5
:)I'm so happy to see that we (old CBER members) haven't lost our zest for rescuing.... We all know a rescue can be found any where...They call to us and we try to help....Not all will be rescued, but one is better than none.... Now we are the leaders....Show the new people where to look and how they can help......... Bless You All............chatty P.S were doing good....
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 18, 2009 14:32:12 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone can fix CBER with Sam as the President. CBER can't be fixed as long as Sam has anything to do with it at all. Period. Too many good people have tried and it's just been business as usual even when we were told opinions were valued and that ideas were "great, let's implement them". Nothing changed. And personally - I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the name CBER. I think the best thing would be to oust Sam/CBER completely and have someone else take over & start fresh.
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Post by sacreddog on Mar 18, 2009 15:03:06 GMT -5
You can also check the "Horses Needing Help" section on this forum, always lots of CL horses, or Friends horses listed that need help. Yes! I just posted a mare and her colt at risk in the Yakima area. If I had a trailer, I'd head over today! Get that mama trained to do something besides pop out babies and geld that colt asap!
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Post by caryn on Mar 18, 2009 15:12:45 GMT -5
I agree with ya Mickey! Like most former CBER volunteers/supporters, I'm focusing on helping horses locally now. When it's local, the rescue efforts and financials are pretty transparent. This board is still my favorite "community" I'm glad we can come here and spread the word about horses in need and support each others efforts.
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Post by jenm on Mar 18, 2009 15:40:14 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone can fix CBER with Sam as the President. CBER can't be fixed as long as Sam has anything to do with it at all. Period. Too many good people have tried and it's just been business as usual even when we were told opinions were valued and that ideas were "great, let's implement them". Nothing changed. And personally - I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the name CBER. I think the best thing would be to oust Sam/CBER completely and have someone else take over & start fresh. I agree with ya Mickey! Like most former CBER volunteers/supporters, I'm focusing on helping horses locally now. When it's local, the rescue efforts and financials are pretty transparent. This board is still my favorite "community" I'm glad we can come here and spread the word about horses in need and support each others efforts. I agree 100% with what both of you said.
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devalz
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 7
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Post by devalz on Mar 20, 2009 15:34:24 GMT -5
Well, you can bet that she won't drop the QT requirement. Although anyone adopting from CBER ought to insist on it. Do they have the strangles outbreak noted on their bulleting board? Stupid question, I know.....probably not! Either that or it's all the more reason to pay for QT!!! Interesting reference from a CBER volunteer on their board about the incubation time of strangles. Since they know the facts, and post them, how do they explain horses coming out of quarantine and then getting sick. They themselves state "2 week incubation", so they are admitting the horses got sick in quarantine. Also, in many many quarantine photos and Camelot photos, there are a bunch of dogs running around. They can spread it from one pen to the next. That is not proper quarantine.
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mbr
Groovy Groom
Posts: 42
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Post by mbr on Mar 20, 2009 16:05:41 GMT -5
well, sunlightlady just posted today on the cber board and it still shows her as the pres?
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 16:15:57 GMT -5
Well, you can bet that she won't drop the QT requirement. Although anyone adopting from CBER ought to insist on it. Do they have the strangles outbreak noted on their bulleting board? Stupid question, I know.....probably not! Either that or it's all the more reason to pay for QT!!! Interesting reference from a CBER volunteer on their board about the incubation time of strangles. Since they know the facts, and post them, how do they explain horses coming out of quarantine and then getting sick. They themselves state "2 week incubation", so they are admitting the horses got sick in quarantine. Also, in many many quarantine photos and Camelot photos, there are a bunch of dogs running around. They can spread it from one pen to the next. That is not proper quarantine. devalz, if you read the link I also posted about strangles you would have read this too: In classic strangles, S. equi invades the tonsil tissue then enters the regional lymph nodes. Within three to eight days the horse develops clinical signs. Once the abscesses rupture and drain, recovery is typically uneventful and occurs in approximately two weeks. Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy.So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! All it takes is one horse that has strangles to come in contact with a healthy horse and the illness is passed on like wildfire. This can happen at a horse show, a trail ride, or from a neighbor's horses chatting over the fence and for you to try to blame this one on Sam and CBER is just ridiculous! I'm sorry that your horse is sick, but it's not the end of the world so buck up, take care of your horse and deal with it like a responsible horse owner would instead of trying to lay blame and pass the buck! The same thing could have happened had you bought your horse from a sale or even a private barn.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 16:18:54 GMT -5
well, sunlightlady just posted today on the cber board and it still shows her as the pres? thats because she is still the President ;D
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Post by beckybee on Mar 20, 2009 16:32:12 GMT -5
So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! So then why even quarantine at all? Seems unnecessary for horses staying in WA or travelling to a state that doesn't require health cert or coggins. I understand horses going out of state need to be checked by the vet, so what's the minimum "QT" period Dr. Harfst will accept?
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 20, 2009 16:50:32 GMT -5
So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! So then why even quarantine at all? Seems unnecessary for horses staying in WA or travelling to a state that doesn't require health cert or coggins. I understand horses going out of state need to be checked by the vet, so what's the minimum "QT" period Dr. Harfst will accept? Because it makes money for CBER. Thus the mandatory QT for ALL horses, no matter where they're going. Believe me - we all tried to talk Sam out of it. Many, many times, especially for local horses that were being picked up by the owner and not by a commercial hauler.
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devalz
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 7
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Post by devalz on Mar 20, 2009 16:55:28 GMT -5
devalz, if you read the link I also posted about strangles you would have read this too: In classic strangles, S. equi invades the tonsil tissue then enters the regional lymph nodes. Within three to eight days the horse develops clinical signs. Once the abscesses rupture and drain, recovery is typically uneventful and occurs in approximately two weeks. Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy.So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! All it takes is one horse that has strangles to come in contact with a healthy horse and the illness is passed on like wildfire. This can happen at a horse show, a trail ride, or from a neighbor's horses chatting over the fence and for you to try to blame this one on Sam and CBER is just ridiculous! I'm sorry that your horse is sick, but it's not the end of the world so buck up, take care of your horse and deal with it like a responsible horse owner would instead of trying to lay blame and pass the buck! The same thing could have happened had you bought your horse from a sale or even a private barn. Wow. You are an excellent PR rep for CBER. I hope you realize what a huge service you have just performed for those on the fence about adopting from your organization. Your post says it all. To respond to your incredibly rude, naive, and just plain wrong-headed statements, the difference is THAT I WAS FORCED TO PAY FOR QUARANTINE. No one else does that, that you mentioned. I am being responsible, and taking care of my animals....even though I have already paid through the nose to have this exact thing done at Camelot. Your story that the horses that have gotten sick after leaving 30 days quarantine is that they were sick on the lot, were healthy at Sam's, and sick again shortly after arriving home? Really? This is going to be easier than I thought. Lastly, your PM's to me, trying to pump me for information? Very tacky. You swore you weren't asking just to pass information back to Sam/CBER, because YOU were on the fence too, and would never donate or adopt from them again. The honesty and transparency from you and your organization is sorely absent.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 16:56:07 GMT -5
So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! So then why even quarantine at all? Seems unnecessary for horses staying in WA or travelling to a state that doesn't require health cert or coggins. I understand horses going out of state need to be checked by the vet, so what's the minimum "QT" period Dr. Harfst will accept? BeckyB, this has been one of those situations where it's damned if we do, damned if we don't! The only way we could have known who was infected and who wasn't would have been to have nasal swabs done on all of the horses on the feed lot and then waited for results, (Since we did not know at the time that strangles was running thru the feed lot we didn't even consider this). Once we discovered that strangles was indeed a problem Sam immediatley started prevenitive actions on all of the horses in QT by administering Penicillin daily, but unfortunately a couple,( 2 that I know of), were already infected and the Pen had to be stopped on them as they had already formed abcesses and you don't give them any antibiotics after the abcess forms or you risk "bastard strangles". As far as what the State Vet has to say, you are more than welcome to ask Diane Repp over on our board, as she has been in constant contact with him since this all began. She will be happy to answer any of your questions. As I said before, I am truly sorry that devalz has a horse with strangles, I can sympathize with her as I too have a sick baby at home, but Strangles is a normal, though annoying Springtime disease and with time, patience and the proper care, our horses will be fine and none the worse for wear. I have also been asked about the strangles vaccine and was told by 4 different equine Vets that it is a vaccine that gives a 50-50 chance of preventing the disease and with the side effects it can cause, (severe injection site reaction, hives, lethargy, runny nose & cough) I would rather not put my horses through all of that and then end up with strangles anyways!
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Post by dingo on Mar 20, 2009 16:59:08 GMT -5
BeckyB, this has been one of those situations where it's damned if we do, damned if we don't! The only way we could have known who was infected and who wasn't would have been to have nasal swabs done on all of the horses on the feed lot and then waited for results, (Since we did not know at the time that strangles was running thru the feed lot we didn't even consider this). Once we discovered that strangles was indeed a problem Sam immediatley started prevenitive actions on all of the horses in QT by administering Penicillin daily, but unfortunately a couple,( 2 that I know of), were already infected and the Pen had to be stopped on them as they had already formed abcesses and you don't give them any antibiotics after the abcess forms or you risk "bastard strangles". As far as what the State Vet has to say, you are more than welcome to ask Diane Repp over on our board, as she has been in constant contact with him since this all began. She will be happy to answer any of your questions. As I said before, I am truly sorry that devalz has a horse with strangles, I can sympathize with her as I too have a sick baby at home, but Strangles is a normal, though annoying Springtime disease and with time, patience and the proper care, our horses will be fine and none the worse for wear. I have also been asked about the strangles vaccine and was told by 4 different equine Vets that it is a vaccine that gives a 50-50 chance of preventing the disease and with the side effects it can cause, (severe injection site reaction, hives, lethargy, runny nose & cough) I would rather not put my horses through all of that and then end up with strangles anyways! So the horses supposedly had Strangles at the lot - recovered at the lot - were healthy at Sam's and then showed up at the adopters' house with developing Strangles abscesses. All of this and Sam never mentioned to the adopter that their horse had had Strangles? You know, I have dealt with Strangles quite a few times including CBER's special flavor of it. EVERY SINGLE TIME horses showed massive hair loss, scars, and other obvious signs of being sick for MONTHS after wards. How could they have been sick with Strangles and recovered prior to arriving at Sam's and have her not notice? Are you speaking from your own ignorance, because I cannot believe that Sam would ever try to get anyone to believe this. BTW, haven't the CBER BOD asked you to stop posting over here? You ought to listen to them since you are only hurting CBER with your ignorance and condescension on this board which saved more CBER horses then you can even name. We remember what you and your fellows don't even realize has been forgotten. Our CBER experience dwarfs your own and makes your shallow fanaticism wane callow.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 17:08:15 GMT -5
devalz, if you read the link I also posted about strangles you would have read this too: In classic strangles, S. equi invades the tonsil tissue then enters the regional lymph nodes. Within three to eight days the horse develops clinical signs. Once the abscesses rupture and drain, recovery is typically uneventful and occurs in approximately two weeks. Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy.So the horses could very well have been exposed on the lot, gotten sick and then recovered, only to still be carriers, which would have resulted in more sick horses. Strangles is no ones fault, even the most diligent and sanitary of barns can be exposed to the disease! All it takes is one horse that has strangles to come in contact with a healthy horse and the illness is passed on like wildfire. This can happen at a horse show, a trail ride, or from a neighbor's horses chatting over the fence and for you to try to blame this one on Sam and CBER is just ridiculous! I'm sorry that your horse is sick, but it's not the end of the world so buck up, take care of your horse and deal with it like a responsible horse owner would instead of trying to lay blame and pass the buck! The same thing could have happened had you bought your horse from a sale or even a private barn. Wow. You are an excellent PR rep for CBER. I hope you realize what a huge service you have just performed for those on the fence about adopting from your organization. Your post says it all. To respond to your incredibly rude, naive, and just plain wrong-headed statements, the difference is THAT I WAS FORCED TO PAY FOR QUARANTINE. No one else does that, that you mentioned. I am being responsible, and taking care of my animals....even though I have already paid through the nose to have this exact thing done at Camelot. Your story that the horses that have gotten sick after leaving 30 days quarantine is that they were sick on the lot, were healthy at Sam's, and sick again shortly after arriving home? Really? This is going to be easier than I thought. Lastly, your PM's to me, trying to pump me for information? Very tacky. You swore you weren't asking just to pass information back to Sam/CBER, because YOU were on the fence too, and would never donate or adopt from them again. The honesty and transparency from you and your organization is sorely absent. Excuse me? I never "pumped" you for information, I offered to help you because we, (Diane and I), were trying to find out which horses were ill so that we could make it right! I have not hidden my identity nor have I ridden both sides of the fence! I told you that I would not adopt or donate money, but I would donate my time. As far as being "forced" to pay QT, I don't think anyone held a gun to your head and "forced" you to adopt and pay the QT that is clearly posted on the CBER board, that is something you chose to do on your own. Just because you are not happy about it doesn't mean you were "forced" so lets get that straight! As for the illness, do some reading and then maybe you'll understand how strangles works! I too have paid high, mandatory QT fees on overly priced horses, not because I was forced to, but because I wanted to save a life! And you won't see me running around crying the blues and badmouthing CBER because I'm not happy with MY decision. If you want to talk about "tacky" maybe you should take a look in the mirror! I was only trying to be helpful here and look what happened, everything got twisted around! go figure
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devalz
Super Pooper Scooper
Posts: 7
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Post by devalz on Mar 20, 2009 17:16:52 GMT -5
Excuse me? I never "pumped" you for information, I offered to help you because we, (Diane and I), were trying to find out which horses were ill so that we could make it right! I have not hidden my identity nor have I ridden both sides of the fence! I told you that I would not adopt or donate money, but I would donate my time. As far as being "forced" to pay QT, I don't think anyone held a gun to your head and "forced" you to adopt and pay the QT that is clearly posted on the CBER board, that is something you chose to do on your own. Just because you are not happy about it doesn't mean you were "forced" so lets get that straight! As for the illness, do some reading and then maybe you'll understand how strangles works! I too have paid high, mandatory QT fees on overly priced horses, not because I was forced to, but because I wanted to save a life! And you won't see me running around crying the blues and badmouthing CBER because I'm not happy with MY decision. If you want to talk about "tacky" maybe you should take a look in the mirror! I was only trying to be helpful here and look what happened, everything got twisted around! go figure Sadly, you are probably the most professional pr person CBER has. And no, a gun wasn't held to my head. It was held to the horse's heads. As for being tacky, irresponsible, and crying the blues: I was good enough to adopt from you when you wanted my money. Now that you aren't going to get anymore of it, the truth comes out. I am glad I have spoken out about this, as it has brought other similar and worse stories from other people with experience with CBER. We aren't "crying the blues", we are doing something about it.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 17:17:57 GMT -5
BeckyB, this has been one of those situations where it's damned if we do, damned if we don't! The only way we could have known who was infected and who wasn't would have been to have nasal swabs done on all of the horses on the feed lot and then waited for results, (Since we did not know at the time that strangles was running thru the feed lot we didn't even consider this). Once we discovered that strangles was indeed a problem Sam immediatley started prevenitive actions on all of the horses in QT by administering Penicillin daily, but unfortunately a couple,( 2 that I know of), were already infected and the Pen had to be stopped on them as they had already formed abcesses and you don't give them any antibiotics after the abcess forms or you risk "bastard strangles". As far as what the State Vet has to say, you are more than welcome to ask Diane Repp over on our board, as she has been in constant contact with him since this all began. She will be happy to answer any of your questions. As I said before, I am truly sorry that devalz has a horse with strangles, I can sympathize with her as I too have a sick baby at home, but Strangles is a normal, though annoying Springtime disease and with time, patience and the proper care, our horses will be fine and none the worse for wear. I have also been asked about the strangles vaccine and was told by 4 different equine Vets that it is a vaccine that gives a 50-50 chance of preventing the disease and with the side effects it can cause, (severe injection site reaction, hives, lethargy, runny nose & cough) I would rather not put my horses through all of that and then end up with strangles anyways! So the horses supposedly had Strangles at the lot - recovered at the lot - were healthy at Sam's and then showed up at the adopters' house with developing Strangles abscesses. All of this and Sam never mentioned to the adopter that their horse had had Strangles? You know, I have dealt with Strangles quite a few times including CBER's special flavor of it. EVERY SINGLE TIME horses showed massive hair loss, scars, and other obvious signs of being sick for MONTHS after wards. How could they have been sick with Strangles and recovered prior to arriving at Sam's and have her not notice? Are you speaking from your own ignorance, because I cannot believe that Sam would ever try to get anyone to believe this. BTW, haven't the CBER BOD asked you to stop posting over here? You ought to listen to them since you are only hurting CBER with your ignorance and condescension on this board which saved more CBER horses then you can even name. We remember what you and your fellows don't even realize has been forgotten. Our CBER experience dwarfs your own and makes your shallow fanaticism wane callow. I post where and what I want, CBER does not own me nor do they dictate what I can and cannot say! And what part of this statement from a Vet do you not understand? Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy It's obvious that no matter what I say someone will try to turn it into an argument, unless of course I come over to "your" side and share in the bashing of CBER and become one of the "haters". So sad really, just think how much good we could all do if you could get over the "I hate Sam" mentality and work together as one big group! But then it would be all about the horses and you wouldn't be able to trash anyone and that wouldn't be any fun now, would it?!
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Post by dingo on Mar 20, 2009 17:24:43 GMT -5
I post where and what I want, CBER does not own me nor do they dictate what I can and cannot say! And what part of this statement from a Vet do you not understand? Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy It's obvious that no matter what I say someone will try to turn it into an argument, unless of course I come over to "your" side and share in the bashing of CBER and become one of the "haters". So sad really, just think how much good we could all do if you could get over the "I hate Sam" mentality and work together as one big group! But then it would be all about the horses and you wouldn't be able to trash anyone and that wouldn't be any fun now, would it?! Are you trying to tell me that horses recently recovered from strangles don't have missing hair and tell-tale scars? Hundreds of CBER horses have been adopted through this board (YES! THIS board!) and any number of members here can tell you that each and every one of them had those symptoms. If Sam cannot judge Strangles better then us, then WHY is she the QT specialist? One might assume that as the only approved CBER QT personage that she would know these signs that even us poor laypeople know. Do you argue the defense of CBER's QT practices by claiming their ignorance? AND DO THEY THANK YOU FOR THIS SERVICE? Then again, why do I ask? They have blatantly told you to shut up.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 17:27:52 GMT -5
Excuse me? I never "pumped" you for information, I offered to help you because we, (Diane and I), were trying to find out which horses were ill so that we could make it right! I have not hidden my identity nor have I ridden both sides of the fence! I told you that I would not adopt or donate money, but I would donate my time. As far as being "forced" to pay QT, I don't think anyone held a gun to your head and "forced" you to adopt and pay the QT that is clearly posted on the CBER board, that is something you chose to do on your own. Just because you are not happy about it doesn't mean you were "forced" so lets get that straight! As for the illness, do some reading and then maybe you'll understand how strangles works! I too have paid high, mandatory QT fees on overly priced horses, not because I was forced to, but because I wanted to save a life! And you won't see me running around crying the blues and badmouthing CBER because I'm not happy with MY decision. If you want to talk about "tacky" maybe you should take a look in the mirror! I was only trying to be helpful here and look what happened, everything got twisted around! go figure Sadly, you are probably the most professional pr person CBER has. And no, a gun wasn't held to my head. It was held to the horse's heads. As for being tacky, irresponsible, and crying the blues: I was good enough to adopt from you when you wanted my money. Now that you aren't going to get anymore of it, the truth comes out. I am glad I have spoken out about this, as it has brought other similar and worse stories from other people with experience with CBER. We aren't "crying the blues", we are doing something about it. I am truly sorry that the decision you made to adopt thru CBER has made you so bitter. I don't know what I can say or do to make you realize that the only reason I work with CBER is for the horses! I did'nt want your money, I never see any money, I am strictly a volunteer who spends hours processing applications, posting ads and trying to save slaugher bound horses because I feel that it is a worthy cause. I don't think I called you "irresponsible" and if I did I apologize. Like I said, I only wanted to help you and anyone else that needs it. I have offered to be the "middle person" to anyone that has a gripe with CBER in case they don't want to deal with them directly and look what it gets me, a bunch of people trying to challenge my intelligence and integrity, ouch! Also, why do you say your'e sorry that I'm a great PR person for CBER? I'm not trying to promote them, I'm trying to help people like yourself realize that we're not all bad!
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 17:39:47 GMT -5
I post where and what I want, CBER does not own me nor do they dictate what I can and cannot say! And what part of this statement from a Vet do you not understand? Horses can remain infective for weeks after recovery, and a small number continue to shed the bacteria intermittently for a prolonged time—even years—despite appearing completely healthy It's obvious that no matter what I say someone will try to turn it into an argument, unless of course I come over to "your" side and share in the bashing of CBER and become one of the "haters". So sad really, just think how much good we could all do if you could get over the "I hate Sam" mentality and work together as one big group! But then it would be all about the horses and you wouldn't be able to trash anyone and that wouldn't be any fun now, would it?! Are you trying to tell me that horses recently recovered from strangles don't have missing hair and tell-tale scars? Hundreds of CBER horses have been adopted through this board (YES! THIS board!) and any number of members here can tell you that each and every one of them had those symptoms. If Sam cannot judge Strangles better then us, then WHY is she the QT specialist? One might assume that as the only approved CBER QT personage that she would know these signs that even us poor laypeople know. Do you argue the defense of CBER's QT practices by claiming their ignorance? AND DO THEY THANK YOU FOR THIS SERVICE? Then again, why do I ask? They have blatantly told you to shut up. And how would you know if I've supposed to have been told to "shut up", which I have not! like I said, I speak when I want. I never argued the QT practices, you are twisting my words which is no suprise coming from this board full of Sam and CBER haters! Also, why do you hide behind new board names instead of showing your CBER identity? never mind, you wouldn't have the decency to do that, would you?
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Post by beckybee on Mar 20, 2009 17:41:25 GMT -5
So then why even quarantine at all? Seems unnecessary for horses staying in WA or travelling to a state that doesn't require health cert or coggins. I understand horses going out of state need to be checked by the vet, so what's the minimum "QT" period Dr. Harfst will accept? BeckyB, this has been one of those situations where it's damned if we do, damned if we don't! The only way we could have known who was infected and who wasn't would have been to have nasal swabs done on all of the horses on the feed lot and then waited for results, (Since we did not know at the time that strangles was running thru the feed lot we didn't even consider this). Once we discovered that strangles was indeed a problem Sam immediatley started prevenitive actions on all of the horses in QT by administering Penicillin daily, but unfortunately a couple,( 2 that I know of), were already infected and the Pen had to be stopped on them as they had already formed abcesses and you don't give them any antibiotics after the abcess forms or you risk "bastard strangles". As far as what the State Vet has to say, you are more than welcome to ask Diane Repp over on our board, as she has been in constant contact with him since this all began. She will be happy to answer any of your questions. As I said before, I am truly sorry that devalz has a horse with strangles, I can sympathize with her as I too have a sick baby at home, but Strangles is a normal, though annoying Springtime disease and with time, patience and the proper care, our horses will be fine and none the worse for wear. I have also been asked about the strangles vaccine and was told by 4 different equine Vets that it is a vaccine that gives a 50-50 chance of preventing the disease and with the side effects it can cause, (severe injection site reaction, hives, lethargy, runny nose & cough) I would rather not put my horses through all of that and then end up with strangles anyways! 1) If you read the "The Horse" article, they state that giving antibiotics after abscesses develop DOES NOT cause bastard strangles. 2) Dr. Harfst is not the state vet. He is the (only?) vet that works with CBER. He does all the coggins, health certs, vet checks, etc. As far as I know, no horse leaves CBER for another state without his approval. (He also used to do the Brand Inspections, but was stopped from doing so, at least for a while. Is the state still doing them for CBER? I know that he didn't see Raz's Trakehner brand although he is a Trakehner breeder and was sure Raz was a warmblood.) 3) Strangles carriers carry the bacteria but do not get sick, so it is wrong to call a horse that gets sick, gets better, then gets sick a carrier. That is a horse that never actually got better. 4) No CBER isn't "damned if we do or damned if we don't" for QT'ing or not. CBER is damned for charging so damned much, for having QT fees be for the sole and private benefit of Sam. CBER could have adopters sign a release. Name one other rescue that does this? Sorry, it just looks bad. I supported Sam doing the QT because it was way better than the alternatives for us out-of-state adopters. But if she is getting sloppy on her QT, than what's the point?
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Post by greysquirrel on Mar 20, 2009 17:58:51 GMT -5
The horse, Bubbles, another horse who left QT about a week ago, just came down with strangles and probably infected an older gelding it lives with. Nice.
Oh, thanks to the admin who reinstated my account!
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 18:20:12 GMT -5
The horse, Bubbles, another horse who left QT about a week ago, just came down with strangles and probably infected an older gelding it lives with. Nice. Oh, thanks to the admin who reinstated my account! hi greysquirrel, Bubbles and the older gelding are my horses and yes, Bubbles is at the beginning of full blown strangles and I'm afraid that my old guy may be next. I took every precaution when I brought her home, I kept her QT'd and on Pen, but my niece took Bubbles out of the corral when I wasn't home and "intrduced" her to the rest of the herd! She had not been told by her Mom that Bubbles was off limits. So the 2 weeks spent in my QT with daily doses of pen didn't do Bubbles or the rest of my herd any good and I will probably end up with not one sick horse, but 10! Am I mad about this? Heavens no! The same thing could have happened had I gone to a Spring show or trail ride and let my horses mingle with others. I know that while she was in QT at Sam's she was given pen daily and when we picked her up she looked great, healthy and no scars or missing hair! I QT'd her at my place as I do any new horses that are brought onto the property just to be on the safe side and we still have strangles, so I say "oh well" and deal with what I've been dealt and get on with my life! I guess I look at it like this, when you adopt a horse off of a feed lot you are taking a chance, whether it be a health risk, a training problem, or whatever, its just going to be a risk. Even with QT being done I don't think that it guarantees anyone 100% as to the horse you get being perfect. Thats the chance we take when we rescue. Thats just the way I look at it. If I were looking for a "perfect" horse I sure wouldn't be looking at the rescue sights, (even though plenty of folks have found the perfect horse for themselves ), these horses are on the feed lot for a reason and it's not always because someone "just doesn't want them anymore"!
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Post by caryn on Mar 20, 2009 18:33:48 GMT -5
Good lord, it's not QT if the horses are being released and are sick or still at risk to come down with Strangles.
It's one thing if quarrantine is NOT mandatory and the horses are released to the adopter with a warning and recommendation to QT for a minimum of 30 days and consult a vet prior to exposing the horse to others. That's the way I got my first CBER horse in 2005. We didn't have mandatory QT, we were allowed to do it ourselves. If the horse got sick and infected others, then it would have been MY fault. Under the current circumstances, where QT is mandatory and the services are solely provided by Sam, it is SAM's fault that other horses are being exposed because the horses were released and were OBVIOUSLY still a risk. Lovely, horses are getting sick at the QT property...Its ridiculous.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 18:35:15 GMT -5
BeckyB, this has been one of those situations where it's damned if we do, damned if we don't! The only way we could have known who was infected and who wasn't would have been to have nasal swabs done on all of the horses on the feed lot and then waited for results, (Since we did not know at the time that strangles was running thru the feed lot we didn't even consider this). Once we discovered that strangles was indeed a problem Sam immediatley started prevenitive actions on all of the horses in QT by administering Penicillin daily, but unfortunately a couple,( 2 that I know of), were already infected and the Pen had to be stopped on them as they had already formed abcesses and you don't give them any antibiotics after the abcess forms or you risk "bastard strangles". As far as what the State Vet has to say, you are more than welcome to ask Diane Repp over on our board, as she has been in constant contact with him since this all began. She will be happy to answer any of your questions. As I said before, I am truly sorry that devalz has a horse with strangles, I can sympathize with her as I too have a sick baby at home, but Strangles is a normal, though annoying Springtime disease and with time, patience and the proper care, our horses will be fine and none the worse for wear. I have also been asked about the strangles vaccine and was told by 4 different equine Vets that it is a vaccine that gives a 50-50 chance of preventing the disease and with the side effects it can cause, (severe injection site reaction, hives, lethargy, runny nose & cough) I would rather not put my horses through all of that and then end up with strangles anyways! 1) If you read the "The Horse" article, they state that giving antibiotics after abscesses develop DOES NOT cause bastard strangles. 2) Dr. Harfst is not the state vet. He is the (only?) vet that works with CBER. He does all the coggins, health certs, vet checks, etc. As far as I know, no horse leaves CBER for another state without his approval. (He also used to do the Brand Inspections, but was stopped from doing so, at least for a while. Is the state still doing them for CBER? I know that he didn't see Raz's Trakehner brand although he is a Trakehner breeder and was sure Raz was a warmblood.) 3) Strangles carriers carry the bacteria but do not get sick, so it is wrong to call a horse that gets sick, gets better, then gets sick a carrier. That is a horse that never actually got better. 4) No CBER isn't "damned if we do or damned if we don't" for QT'ing or not. CBER is damned for charging so damned much, for having QT fees be for the sole and private benefit of Sam. CBER could have adopters sign a release. Name one other rescue that does this? Sorry, it just looks bad. I supported Sam doing the QT because it was way better than the alternatives for us out-of-state adopters. But if she is getting sloppy on her QT, than what's the point? beckyb, I mean no disrespect but I've had horses for over 30 years and I've dealt with strangles many, many times. In fact years past we would just let it run its course thru our ranch and be done with it, and usually not see another outbreak unless we'd been showing/traveling hard or brought in a new bunch to train. In response to your remarks: 1.) My Vet of 30 years is the one that say's do not give antibiotics once the abcess forms because it will cause bastard strangles, and I trust him with not only my horses life but my own! 2.) I know that Dr. H is CBER's vet, I was referring to the State Vet because that is who we've been talking to about this strangles outbreak 3.) We are both right on this one, a horse that has had strangles and then gets better, or appears to get better because they are no longer showing signs of the illness ( so without testing how would we know whether they were still ill or not, and would you test if you thought they were well?) can be a carrier for a year or better. 4.) We have letters from the WA State Vet providing proof of the importance and need for QT, along with the guidelines he requires to be a certified QT facility, something Sam has. Now don't get me wrong, I have openly disputed the costs and length of QT on the board and amongst the BOD. I have also suggested waivers freeing CBER from all liability so that adopters could QT themselves. But the State Vet has strongly urged agaist this and so we have a mandatory QT, something other rescues are also now starting to do. ( I'll get the names of those rescues if you'd like).
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 18:46:30 GMT -5
Good lord, it's not QT if the horses are being released and are sick or still at risk to come down with Strangles. It's one thing if quarrantine is NOT mandatory and the horses are released to the adopter with a warning and recommendation to QT for a minimum of 30 days and consult a vet prior to exposing the horse to others. That's the way I got my first CBER horse in 2005. We didn't have mandatory QT, we were allowed to do it ourselves. If the horse got sick and infected others, then it would have been MY fault. Under the current circumstances, where QT is mandatory and the services are solely provided by Sam, it is SAM's fault that other horses are being exposed because the horses were released and were OBVIOUSLY still a risk. Lovely, horses are getting sick at the QT property...Its ridiculous. there we go again twisting my words, Bubbles appeared totally healthy when she was picked up, I could have had her vet checked but I brought her home and QT'd her myself. And yes, I guess you could say its my fault that I wasn't home and my teenage neice came out to ride and had not yet been told to not touch the new horse. but you know, I don't understand why you all are acting like its the end of the world?! my gosh its strangles for goodness sakes! its been around since the coming of Christ and you all act like Sam herself intentionally created and infected the (2) horses that have it! I guess it's just easier to say negative things here than it is to try to look on the brighter side. Am I happy that I now have to deal with a strangles outbreak? NO, Is it going to ruin my life or my horses lives? NO! Is it going to make me hate and blame Sam and CBER? NO!! It's just life and in life stuff happens and we can't always be so quick to push the blame on someone just because you don't like them!
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Post by greysquirrel on Mar 20, 2009 18:46:33 GMT -5
Don't you get it? The state vet recommended QT- TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF STRANGLES!!! Obviously this isn't working. Now there's a good chance that 10 of your horses could get sick.
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