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Post by greysquirrel on Mar 20, 2009 18:49:29 GMT -5
[, Bubbles appeared totally healthy when she was picked up, That's because the incubation period for strangles is about 3-14 days!!!! She obviously picked it up WHILE IN QT and then came down with the symptoms after you brought her home. How can you not get this? OMG, I think my head is going to explode.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 18:59:28 GMT -5
Don't you get it? The state vet recommended QT- TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF STRANGLES!!! Obviously this isn't working. Now there's a good chance that 10 of your horses could get sick. Don't you get it that it's only strangles?!, it's a messy, not so fun illness, but everyone will be fine! My place is under QT until they all test healthy, no one come in or goes out without disinfecting themselves and everything will be fine! I'm not holding anyone responsible for this because the horses in QT were given all of the prevenitive care they needed, end of story! If I or anyone else was worried about it they could have asked for a longer QT, and the fact that strangles may have been present was made quite public to all of the adopters and the members of the board along with the treatments being used and regular updates, so for the folks that are whining that they paid for QT and still had a sick horse, they had the option of keeping that horse in QT until they tested healthy per nasal swabs, or taking them home. So whose fault is it then if the horse went home sick? (That was a dumb question to ask here because I'm sure you'll tell me that even with those options it was still all CBER's fault)
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 19:13:43 GMT -5
[, Bubbles appeared totally healthy when she was picked up, That's because the incubation period for strangles is about 3-14 days!!!! She obviously picked it up WHILE IN QT and then came down with the symptoms after you brought her home. How can you not get this? OMG, I think my head is going to explode. And you think I don't know this?! I've had horses for over 30 yrs! I am not a beginner to all of this, OMG it's hopeless! I guess I am way to nice of a person to be here on this board because my goal in life does not consist of badmouthing and bashing people and I believe that forgiveness is one of the greatest gifts we can give one another! There is only one judge in life and that is God so I have no right to judge others actions, past or present but it seems that there are plenty here who think they are the judge jury and hangman! I gave it my best in trying to explain things in plain and simple english, I even tried to communicate to the one that was so upset to see if I could be of any help with her sick horse and her complaints, yet you all chose to twist my words around and make me look stupid, something I am not! Well so much for the olive branch attempt! I hope you are all happy in your hateful and closed minded little world. Oh and maybe you should try to spend a little more time saving horses and a little less time bad mouthing others, just a suggestion
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Post by michelle on Mar 20, 2009 19:14:33 GMT -5
Don't you get it? The state vet recommended QT- TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF STRANGLES!!! Obviously this isn't working. Now there's a good chance that 10 of your horses could get sick. Don't you get it that it's only strangles?!, it's a messy, not so fun illness, but everyone will be fine! My place is under QT until they all test healthy, no one come in or goes out without disinfecting themselves and everything will be fine! I'm not holding anyone responsible for this because the horses in QT were given all of the prevenitive care they needed, end of story! If I or anyone else was worried about it they could have asked for a longer QT, and the fact that strangles may have been present was made quite public to all of the adopters and the members of the board along with the treatments being used and regular updates, so for the folks that are whining that they paid for QT and still had a sick horse, they had the option of keeping that horse in QT until they tested healthy per nasal swabs, or taking them home. So whose fault is it then if the horse went home sick? (That was a dumb question to ask here because I'm sure you'll tell me that even with those options it was still all CBER's fault) If they catch the illness in QT, it sort of makes QT superfluous. What is the point of QT then, if they arrive without strangles, and leave with it? As for Strangles being no biggie, just inconvenient... again, what is the point of QT if it is no big deal? And as for adopters being ticked off that their horse caught a disease WHILE IN QT, when they were not allowed to QT themselves, or allowed to choose a different QT facility they approve of, and had to pay for this privilege.....anyone who does not understand their anger and frustration has a serious logic disconnect. It is a matter of not getting what you paid for, quite simply. mta that I am not saying it isn't necessary to quarantine...just pointing out the pointlessness of qt'ing where your horse will actually catch something.
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Post by caryn on Mar 20, 2009 19:32:44 GMT -5
Good lord, it's not QT if the horses are being released and are sick or still at risk to come down with Strangles. It's one thing if quarrantine is NOT mandatory and the horses are released to the adopter with a warning and recommendation to QT for a minimum of 30 days and consult a vet prior to exposing the horse to others. That's the way I got my first CBER horse in 2005. We didn't have mandatory QT, we were allowed to do it ourselves. If the horse got sick and infected others, then it would have been MY fault. Under the current circumstances, where QT is mandatory and the services are solely provided by Sam, it is SAM's fault that other horses are being exposed because the horses were released and were OBVIOUSLY still a risk. Lovely, horses are getting sick at the QT property...Its ridiculous. there we go again twisting my words, Bubbles appeared totally healthy when she was picked up, I could have had her vet checked but I brought her home and QT'd her myself. And yes, I guess you could say its my fault that I wasn't home and my teenage neice came out to ride and had not yet been told to not touch the new horse. but you know, I don't understand why you all are acting like its the end of the world?! my gosh its strangles for goodness sakes! its been around since the coming of Christ and you all act like Sam herself intentionally created and infected the (2) horses that have it! I guess it's just easier to say negative things here than it is to try to look on the brighter side. Am I happy that I now have to deal with a strangles outbreak? NO, Is it going to ruin my life or my horses lives? NO! Is it going to make me hate and blame Sam and CBER? NO!! It's just life and in life stuff happens and we can't always be so quick to push the blame on someone just because you don't like them! Strangles IS a big deal. Were you around during the last outbreak that spurred the "mandatory" QT. Do you know how many horses DIED from it? I don't have an exact count, but it was A LOT. A couple of horses that had never been to the lot were exposed and at least one died. Strangles is not the sniffles. True, most horses suffer through it and live, but the old, the young and the immune compromised ( most horses on the lot or at auction fall into this category ) are at risk for serious complications. Oh and I don't like Sam because she sends horses to slaughter and is a scam artist. This little episode is just another example of her incompetence and complete disregard for the horses she claim to care for!
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Post by TashGaia on Mar 20, 2009 19:58:36 GMT -5
The outbreak of Strangles at WhiskeyBrat's that resulted in the death of her horse is the ENTIRE basis for CBER's justification of mandatory QT. If we are now being told by CBER volunteers that Strangles is no big deal, and we are being shown that the horses are contracting Strangles while in QT, and that they are being sent home from QT to infect other horses... what then is the point of mandatory QT?
It would seem to me that CBER just argued themselves out of it since they cannot have it both ways... either it is a serious problem and hence the need for mandatory QT, or it is not a serious problem and so folks oughtn't be overly upset if their horse contracts Strangles in QT and brings it home to others.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 20:37:19 GMT -5
The outbreak of Strangles at WhiskeyBrat's that resulted in the death of her horse is the ENTIRE basis for CBER's justification of mandatory QT. If we are now being told by CBER volunteers that Strangles is no big deal, and we are being shown that the horses are contracting Strangles while in QT, and that they are being sent home from QT to infect other horses... what then is the point of mandatory QT? It would seem to me that CBER just argued themselves out of it since they cannot have it both ways... either it is a serious problem and hence the need for mandatory QT, or it is not a serious problem and so folks oughtn't be overly upset if their horse contracts Strangles in QT and brings it home to others. Tash, I am not saying that strangles "is not" a big deal for everyone, it is not a big deal for me and my horses involved! I can and will deal with it and we'll handle it just fine. I don't blame anyone for a sickness that is as common as the days are long! But once again you have all taken my words and twisted them into your own little web of contempt. QT is very important and should not be taken lightly, and if anyone feels that a horse is not ready to leave QT at the end of the mandatory 30 days, they should keep them there until they are comfortable with taking them home. I guess I made a mistake by even attempting to carry on a civil conversation with master manipulators of the written word! you folks have twisted and turned everything I've said into a bunch of hogwash whats the use!
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Post by caryn on Mar 20, 2009 20:42:32 GMT -5
If Strangles is not a big deal for you and it's not a big deal for your horses to suffer due to your incompetence, then I hope to hell that I wasn't the one to approve your application to adopt.
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Post by luvmypaints on Mar 20, 2009 21:01:55 GMT -5
If Strangles is not a big deal for you and it's not a big deal for your horses to suffer due to your incompetence, then I hope to hell that I wasn't the one to approve your application to adopt. How dare you refer to me as incompetent! you don't know me or my years of experience to pass judgement like that! when I said it's no big deal it was meant as it's nothing we won't handle and take care of! I'll have you know that my horses are treated better than most of you probably treat your own children! They have never, nor will they ever suffer as long as I have a breath left in me and are loved and cared for more than you could even understand with that simple little narrow mind of yours!You are a bunch of horribly ignorant and judgmental people that have no other life than to sit on your fat asses and pass the day away talking about others, shame on you all!
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Post by slinarez on Mar 20, 2009 21:57:44 GMT -5
I know for a fact that the vet Sam uses will not sign a health cert if there is anything wrong with the horse period! He says when they are well he will recheck and sign, then they can be transported. I haven't transported any horses for about 5-6 months now, but he won't sign and neither will Mapleway Clinic. The horses have to free from disease. Goodness if you can't say something good about someone, why say anything? Just keep it to yourself or give the person you want to talk to a pm or phone call.
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devalz
Super Pooper Scooper
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Post by devalz on Mar 20, 2009 21:58:49 GMT -5
How dare you refer to me as incompetent! you don't know me or my years of experience to pass judgement like that! when I said it's no big deal it was meant as it's nothing we won't handle and take care of! I'll have you know that my horses are treated better than most of you probably treat your own children! They have never, nor will they ever suffer as long as I have a breath left in me and are loved and cared for more than you could even understand with that simple little narrow mind of yours! You are a bunch of horribly ignorant and judgmental people that have no other life than to sit on your fat asses and pass the day away talking about others, shame on you all! And there you have it...CBER volunteers at their finest. Either that, or she's channeling Sam.
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Post by lorsadoon on Mar 20, 2009 22:01:28 GMT -5
The outbreak of Strangles at WhiskeyBrat's that resulted in the death of her horse is the ENTIRE basis for CBER's justification of mandatory QT. If we are now being told by CBER volunteers that Strangles is no big deal, and we are being shown that the horses are contracting Strangles while in QT, and that they are being sent home from QT to infect other horses... what then is the point of mandatory QT? It would seem to me that CBER just argued themselves out of it since they cannot have it both ways... either it is a serious problem and hence the need for mandatory QT, or it is not a serious problem and so folks oughtn't be overly upset if their horse contracts Strangles in QT and brings it home to others. The answer to "what is the point of mandatory QT?" It is to keep a monopoly on the QT money. Many people are competent enough to do their own. Maybe more qualified than Sam. The way horses are shuffled in and out at Camelot Farm, is like a revolving door. There is no way she can control the bacteria there anymore than at the lot. It should be optional, not mandatory. Like you say luvmypaints, many are capable of taking care of strangles. If someone at your place moved a horse without permission, especially when they had instructions not too, then that would be your problem or their problem. Not CBERs, so let people do their own QT, all they need to do is sign a waiver of liability. The only one who looses out as far as I can see is Sam, as she will not be collecting the money. And this will keep her from getting "stiffed" as she so often likes to state. And people, there are so many more horses at risk than at CBER, just look at Craigslist. OMG. Who do you think is getting all those free horses advertised up by Chucks. I wish I could copy all the photos then compare them to the ones that show up on CBER, I bet many of them that start with a Feedlot fee of $350, were actually freebies from Craigslist. And all the taxes and fees now. Holy Cow.
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Post by chatty on Mar 20, 2009 22:17:17 GMT -5
Well since I have been told, it is I who started these post I'd better say something..... I don't know who told all of you I have a fat ass But please keep it to yourself, OK..... Ignorant, NO...Back stabbing, NO... OK, no on any of these either:...cheating on my spouse...traffic tickets....NO, NO and NO... Dang I'm boring..... GOT THAT OFF MY CHEST........ Now QT'ing horses...I do it myself....Vet by my side and have had no sickness...Only have lost one horse (BB) due to twisted intestine....... now you all have a nice night... ...chatty
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mbr
Groovy Groom
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Post by mbr on Mar 20, 2009 22:57:21 GMT -5
If you have to pay for QT for 30 days (that starts when they get off the feedlot) shouldn't they be ok by then? isn't that what QT is for?
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 21, 2009 0:14:21 GMT -5
Don't you get it? The state vet recommended QT- TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF STRANGLES!!! Obviously this isn't working. Now there's a good chance that 10 of your horses could get sick. Don't you get it that it's only strangles?!, it's a messy, not so fun illness, but everyone will be fine! My place is under QT until they all test healthy, no one come in or goes out without disinfecting themselves and everything will be fine! I'm not holding anyone responsible for this because the horses in QT were given all of the prevenitive care they needed, end of story! If I or anyone else was worried about it they could have asked for a longer QT, and the fact that strangles may have been present was made quite public to all of the adopters and the members of the board along with the treatments being used and regular updates, so for the folks that are whining that they paid for QT and still had a sick horse, they had the option of keeping that horse in QT until they tested healthy per nasal swabs, or taking them home. So whose fault is it then if the horse went home sick? (That was a dumb question to ask here because I'm sure you'll tell me that even with those options it was still all CBER's fault) the minute that strangles was known to be present at Camelot Farm was THE minute that either no more horses came off the lot - which is not what anyone wants to happen - OR - adopters are given the choice to QT themselves or QT elsewhere. Was an announcement made and were adopters given that choice? They may have been exposed at the lot but if it's active and present at the only CBER approved QT facility I sure as hell wouldn't want my horse there. I'd make arrnangements to take it elsewhere. And as long as Chuck is getting paid by someone I'm sure he won't care where the horse is once it's on a trailer.
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 21, 2009 0:17:49 GMT -5
The outbreak of Strangles at WhiskeyBrat's that resulted in the death of her horse is the ENTIRE basis for CBER's justification of mandatory QT. If we are now being told by CBER volunteers that Strangles is no big deal, and we are being shown that the horses are contracting Strangles while in QT, and that they are being sent home from QT to infect other horses... what then is the point of mandatory QT? It would seem to me that CBER just argued themselves out of it since they cannot have it both ways... either it is a serious problem and hence the need for mandatory QT, or it is not a serious problem and so folks oughtn't be overly upset if their horse contracts Strangles in QT and brings it home to others. Tash, I am not saying that strangles "is not" a big deal for everyone, it is not a big deal for me and my horses involved! I can and will deal with it and we'll handle it just fine. I don't blame anyone for a sickness that is as common as the days are long! But once again you have all taken my words and twisted them into your own little web of contempt. QT is very important and should not be taken lightly, and if anyone feels that a horse is not ready to leave QT at the end of the mandatory 30 days, they should keep them there until they are comfortable with taking them home. I guess I made a mistake by even attempting to carry on a civil conversation with master manipulators of the written word! you folks have twisted and turned everything I've said into a bunch of hogwash whats the use! If there is a known outbreak of Strangles at the only Sam/CBER approved QT facility, then Sam/CBER needs to allow people adopting horses from here foward to QT at their own facility. They shouldn't be held hostage to CBER's requirements when they may be able to QT the horse elsewhere and possibly have a lesser chance of their horse coming down with it. Dogs/Cats being allowed to run through and around pens does not make for a good QT facility. Last I checked...they don't disinfect their feet.
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 21, 2009 0:19:35 GMT -5
If you have to pay for QT for 30 days (that starts when they get off the feedlot) shouldn't they be ok by then? isn't that what QT is for? Ideally, yes. But if the QT facility has an outbreak of strangles that they can't contain and prevent from spreading, no new horses should be taken there. Period.
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Post by pnp4kidz on Mar 21, 2009 0:30:23 GMT -5
I hate to jump in on this, but Ms Linarez, you are so totally wrong about those two vets... I have adopted quite a few from CBER, one was Marley, hauled by your husband to me, he was loaded onto the trailer sick, with a fever... having had less than a week of QT, with a signed certificate, with a snotty nose and a fever in the HEAT of the huge Strangles thing... he was my 'replacement' horse for Baron who I traded Amy For... anyway, he had a HORRIBLE case of strangles and needed 90 days of QT here at my house. I can go on, we had many sick sick horses come from up there...
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mbr
Groovy Groom
Posts: 42
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Post by mbr on Mar 21, 2009 0:46:22 GMT -5
If you have to pay for QT for 30 days (that starts when they get off the feedlot) shouldn't they be ok by then? isn't that what QT is for? Ideally, yes. But if the QT facility has an outbreak of strangles that they can't contain and prevent from spreading, no new horses should be taken there. Period. well then if there is an outbreak why are they advertising new horses from the lot? I think they need to get the strangles under control before getting more horses.
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Mar 21, 2009 1:16:19 GMT -5
Exactly.
Or find an alternative QT facility.
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Post by Tockita on Mar 21, 2009 2:58:42 GMT -5
Strangles can be no big deal... or it can be devastating. I think the chance for disaster increases expotentially based on the number of horses exposed. QT could (and SHOULD) be allowed to be done by experienced people at smaller private/home facilities. I certianly could see and agree with a policy that did not allow for QT to be done at a boarding/trainig/sale barn. I can agree that a shipper should at least be told how long a horse has been in QT, or having a policy that would not allow a horse to be shipped by a profesional shipping service unless QT'd first. However I can not see why an adopter/friend/relative could not transport a hose in their own rig, and doing their own QT at again a home facility. The outbreak at Aimee's was very tragic.. but it was only her own horses who were affected, It's not like it spead thru a 100 horse boarding facility. Since Sam gives everyone antibiotics she probably has developed a pen resistant strain at Camelot by now.But we should also remember the horses who end upon the lot /auction used to be mostly older, thin, neglected types.. horses who probably have not had vacs, or other care issues that can cause them to have a weakened immune system. Everything aside at this point my personal dissappointment has been the failure to return or comply with requests to complete paperwork for some horses. So luvmypaints if you could help out with any of the following I would really appreciate some help.... One is for a bill of sale for my CBER filly. I have left Sam a few messages in the past year asking for a Bill of sale for Dyna (Dynamo). I paid half her bail in July 07, and adopted her in Aug 07. She arrived in California 10/07 and I still do not have a bill of sale for her. Based on her teeth and development my vet feels she was born in 07 not 06. She was listed as a Quarter type, but I was told she came off the rez so I requested the Bill of sale state she came from the Yakama Indian Reservation. The folks that have Feather (on lot at same time) also would like some sort of documentation from the rescue that he is a reservation horse. (He is doing great BTW! He is at the trainers being started under saddle) We have asked, reminded, and prayed Sam would actually produce the breeders cert that was said to have belonged to China. The adopters daughter is giving up after 2 years of waiting, and selling her because she wanted a horse she could show at breed shows and that did not happen. Sam claimed the paperwork was sent to 2 different people but we heard it was seen in her office after that and it still was not sent. The last note is not a CBER error but some folks might be interested to know that (Awesome) Blossom the bodacious red beauty is not actually Sweet Wampin VooDoo. Seems the wrong papers were sent to the sale with her and 2 people were reging the same horse. Angi was pretty sure she was not 8 based on her teeth and behavior upon arrival so suspected the papers were wrong. (also that she was too big, and athletic a mare to have come out of the bloodlines listed on the papers) and she was right. Thanks to the willingness of her adopters to follow up with AQHA, and a lady at AQHA willing to try to sort it out. She was able to confirm the owner sent the wrong papers with her, then ordered a duplicate set for the real Sweet Wampin VooDoo. She then went back through papers for every horse ever owned by the breeder and matching them to pictures sent by her adopters, She discovered she is actually Mints Classic Queen (or something like that) and is sending them her real papers. (oh and she just turned 5 I think) She is home from training and being ridden by her daddy. I live down the road from Felicity and will take some pics of her soon I promise. She is all grown up and looks FAB! P.S. Should have added Dyna is an adorable sh*t disturber, and self appointed queen supreme (She even tried battle Symphony and keeps Chester in his place.) Angi has Cordelia back but she is available. I walked her out on trail with 2 friends with unbroke horses and she was GREAT on her ground work! Tons of confidence, affectionate, and beautiful! Very different from the dirty lice covered fuzzball that arrived at my place is it 3 years ago? Kaycee went to a second cow clinic.. she is not the best husband horse but she LOVES to works cows! Any soreness she was having seems to have been caused by her aggresive behavior at feeding time. She walloped the panels hard even if the horse next to her is on the other side of her pen. Valley is doing well with her girl (who is the one who talked us into picking up that $10 abrab mare last fall.) Nice girl with her heart in the right place. That mare turned out to be a diamond! Excellent manners and well trained Ex Vaquero/Charro horse? She knows spanish commands and dances to music but not in a crazy abused way ;D Once her pink eye cleared up her new mom was delighted when she started to ride her. There are many happy CBER stories, and I really wish there weren't so many bad/sad tales... really I do.
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Post by slinarez on Mar 22, 2009 12:06:47 GMT -5
I hate to jump in on this, but Ms Linarez, you are so totally wrong about those two vets... I have adopted quite a few from CBER, one was Marley, hauled by your husband to me, he was loaded onto the trailer sick, with a fever... having had less than a week of QT, with a signed certificate, with a snotty nose and a fever in the HEAT of the huge Strangles thing... he was my 'replacement' horse for Baron who I traded Amy For... anyway, he had a HORRIBLE case of strangles and needed 90 days of QT here at my house. I can go on, we had many sick sick horses come from up there... I'm sorry. I was talking from personal experience. We board horses at our house for people sometimes. On two different occasions we have had to get the vet to come and inspect for the health certs. and they wouldn't sign them. One time one had a fever and the other a runny nose. They said they'd come back out and recheck in a couple of weeks. Well, there were no strangles or anything else, so they cleared them. Thought it was the same for everyone. Again sorry. About your horse we brought down, if the vet hadn't signed a health cert. we wouldn't have brought it.
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Post by TashGaia on Mar 22, 2009 12:17:52 GMT -5
My family purchased 16 horses from CBER/CF. None of them ever got a Health Cert... and three went directly out of state. Three of them arrived sick and were successfully treated without illness spreading to other horses.
I think it is good for CBER to offer QT arrangements if people choose to utilize them. However I believe it is a horrendous mistake to make that QT a mandatory requirement.
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Post by gratefulknits on Mar 22, 2009 14:27:41 GMT -5
I think it is good for CBER to offer QT arrangements if people choose to utilize them. However I believe it is a horrendous mistake to make that QT a mandatory requirement. I actually disagree to a certain extent. Back when I was a CBER supporter, I felt very strongly that CBER should have the mandatory QT requirement because CBER was being blamed for the spread of strangles throughout the PNW. I didn't think that was a reasonable attitude then, and even now that I no longer support CBER I still don't think it was fair to blame them for the illness that happened at WhiskyBrat's. However, I agree that having Camelot Farms offer the only and REQUIRED QT is not ok, and probably not legal by any stretch of the imagination. My own feeling is that CBER (or any rescue that operates from a feed lot or auction house) should require QT but should offer the option of the adopter demonstrating that they have the appropriate set-up and knowledge to do their own QT, or to use another facility that has the knowledge and ability. I think, personally, that the only real problem with the requirement is that the way it is set up, it is directly benefitting the personal business operation of the president (whether currently president de facto or in name doesn't matter) of the rescue. Just my 17.3 cents worth!
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Post by sacreddog on Mar 22, 2009 16:50:10 GMT -5
In the very distant past, there were people who were adopting horses and swearing up, down and sideways that they knew what they were doing and swore they were doing a proper quarantine. Well, of course they weren't. There's always a couple greenhorns that are intent on ruining things for the responsible ones. That being said, I don't know why someone's quarantine facility couldn't be inspected and approved and a waiver signed that they understand the morphology of the strangles bacteria and the quarantine procedure. That would release CBER from any liability and relieve some of the cost associated with adopting. Just a thought...
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Post by lorsadoon on Mar 22, 2009 18:32:29 GMT -5
That being said, I don't know why someone's quarantine facility couldn't be inspected and approved and a waiver signed that they understand the morphology of the strangles bacteria and the quarantine procedure. That would release CBER from any liability and relieve some of the cost associated with adopting. Just a thought... Exactly. All CBER has to do is have a liability waiver signed. But has CBER ever inspected anyones facilities? I know Penny/Pals was trying to get site checks done, but do not know if it ever happened. Heck, way back in 2005, I had volunteered to do site checks down here in Oregon. But they were not interested.
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Post by TashGaia on Mar 22, 2009 18:58:21 GMT -5
I did site checks and follow up checks on some of the horses that I was PS for back in the old days... but those were the only site checks I ever knew of that were done... and I did them unofficially and on my own from making friends of adopters, not because CBER ever asked for a follow up on the horses or was at all interested when I gave updates.
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Post by halfwayhome on Mar 22, 2009 19:17:28 GMT -5
Of course it is reasonable and responsible for any horse, incoming to anyone from a large population of co-mingled horses, to be QT'ed, and it should be done. What IS NOT reasonable is to make a single facility the only facility where they will allow that to happen. This virtually holds feedlot horses hostage to mandatory additional and unnecessary charges when, as many have said, there are legitimate alternatives. It is also a monopoly situation that lines the pockets of an individual farm, not the rescue itself, which in itself brings about many questions. Many people have suggested and even drafted adequate and legal release documents, some going to the extent of suggesting a written vet's certification that a person is both qualified and set up to do proper quarantine procedures for the animal they chose. There is no reason other than greed for this not to be an alternative offering to potential adopters. The facility at Camelot is NOT a state LICENSED quarantine facility, there are actually many "holes" in the set up there for it to qualify it as such. There are local vets who will not work with the horses out there given the choice, they are well known and qualified horse vets of long standing. There are horse people who have more knowledge, education, and experience than the person that runs that facility, with the credentials to back it up. These people should be able to QT a horse. Despite the c ber claims to the contrary, there were plenty of people in the past who worked with their vets and never had a problem with QT of their own and other's animals. The few that had problems were very vocal and did not follow protocol, but that is their own fault, not anyone elses. Anytime anyone brings a horse home from a sale, a show, an event, place, or race where large groups of horses gather, puts themselves at risk and therefore responsible for the consequences. The facility where c ber stashes horses has demonstrated they are neither secure or foolproof, and as such, they are therefore not the only credible quarantine.
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Post by beckybee on Mar 22, 2009 19:27:23 GMT -5
and if anyone feels that a horse is not ready to leave QT at the end of the mandatory 30 days, they should keep them there until they are comfortable with taking them home. at $10/day to Sam. As you try to get Sam to communicate what's happening with your horse. As you try to get her to get farriers out, vets out, trainers out ("tomorrow," "this weekend," "next week"). All of which postpones when you can get your horse. It's really hard to not think that you are deliberately being given the run around when each delay by Sam financially benefits Sam. Believe me, I jumped on any window of opportunity where I could get the vet to sign the papers and get the horse on a truck. I wanted to start taking care of my horses as soon as possible. And except for one, I did over a month of quarantine myself once they got here before they went into boarding. I think if you left it up to Sam to tell you when your horse was ready to go, it would stay there forever (as long as the board was being paid).
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Post by pnp4kidz on Mar 23, 2009 18:10:39 GMT -5
I am not at all saying that the horse brought down by the Linarez's was sick due to them, but he WAS sick, and was 'inspected' and 'passed' by the vet... as was little Sundance (Hobbs) who had the most horrible pneumonia... the 'lot crud' that took place just prior to the strangles one... and yeah, we got him sick too, with a signed 'health cert' from the 'other' vet you speak of... Mapleway. I had to do 5 months of antibiotics with him!!! in QT in a stall the whole time... argh...
I also pushed to get mine out of there ASAP as I knew they were being housed in with other horses, nose to nose with 'well' ones... and knew they were all potentially sick.
I don't think cber should have been held to the fire for Whiskeybrat either... Baron was mine then (and again now...) and he was a ball of spitfire, even sick as a dog... however... he was put in a chain link fence, like a DOG.. with the gate latch used for a DOG, which opens by lifting one side... well... no problem for Baron to figure THAT one out... and then he went visiting. now... HOW the HECK is that cbers fault I don't know... and I don' t think anyone really blamed them... I personally think it was seen as a great opportunity for them to SAY they did so much... and for them to OPEN A SIDE BUSINESS... a guise. I doubt you will find that the State Vet had ANY discussions with them besides a brief phone call if that... ... they would not give the kind of ultimatum that cber said they did... it was hokey.
anyway.... it was what it was... and still is. It is a guise to force you to give overinflated board to the president of the supposed charity/rescue/horse trader Sam.
Oh, and I did the 'first' home visit per the request of cber... years ago, on a woman here near us... they didn't even acknowledge recieving it, and did the visit after they'd sold her horse to someone else! LOL! she was like 'what EVER'... and we checked for QT facilities. they were fine.
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