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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 9, 2008 23:08:30 GMT -5
Update tonight.. got more pics and stuff... will post after uploading.... but he is laying down resting now, but was up most of the day. he poo'd more, and pee'd... eating hay.... but not a lot... I don't want to push too much yet tho... we (my new barn helper, his brother, and I) took a chance, and got a saws-all and were able to cut the biggest part of the hoof curls off. the little guy laid still and seemed like he knew we were helping him... then the brother of my helper's son came in and petted him... he was so cute... the pony I think was comforted by someone finally loving him here he is laying down. You can see the extent of his starvation <embed src="http://p.webshots.com/flash/smallplayer.swf?videoFile=http://videoserve.webshots.com/video/20148/3081451330101004155XgslrJ_v_0.flv&audio=on&displayImagePreview=http://videothumb29.webshots.com/thumb/20148/3081451330101004155XgslrJstill_002_0.jpg&videoPageUrl=http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3081451330101004155XgslrJ&autoPlay=false&shareLink=http://cards.webshots.com/ecard/personalize?photoId=3081451330101004155%26source=v" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" quality="best" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed><br/><br/><a href="http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3081451330101004155XgslrJ">100_1585.mov</a>
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Post by MustangAppy on Apr 10, 2008 0:28:39 GMT -5
Oh my God....poor sweet baby.
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 10, 2008 1:41:43 GMT -5
are there charges being filed against his previous owner??? There needs to be for sure - ...
Sara
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Post by toeps on Apr 10, 2008 2:22:14 GMT -5
I am at a loss for words . . . .
Thank you!
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Post by rocky on Apr 10, 2008 8:55:52 GMT -5
I'm just sick!! Thank you thank you....
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Post by drjinva on Apr 10, 2008 9:05:55 GMT -5
What a poor little thing, but such a good boy laying still while you worked on his feet. I hope one day I'll see a picture of him and my eyes will be filled with tears of happiness instead of tears of sadness for what he's going through.
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Post by frr2 on Apr 10, 2008 9:27:54 GMT -5
Cutiepiepmu, I don't think charges are being filed. He is an old man with advanced Parkinsons who lost his ranch in foreclosure (sounds like a soap opera!). The folks who found the ponies and were allowed to buy them were just glad they didn't go to "auction". Certainly neglect.... hard call on what to do. I'm just glad we have him now and at least he's getting food with no need to compete!
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Post by quatzie on Apr 10, 2008 9:31:40 GMT -5
Wow what a good little colt .. he is, I watched the video I sure hope he makes it.. Gods Speed to health
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Post by countrygirl on Apr 10, 2008 11:01:59 GMT -5
Beth I am so glad to see that this little guy landed on your doorstep. I know you will do everythng possible to help him. We all trust your judgement. Pls give him a kiss on the nose and let him know that he has lots of "aunties" praying for him.
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Post by watermarkfarm on Apr 10, 2008 11:39:36 GMT -5
DANG!
His feet look like a goat's I rescued. She had a congenital hoof deformity called "corkscrew claw," which made her feet grow out and sideways.
Poor little baby. That is a lot of hoof you took off. The photos look like something from a veterinary textbook.
Please let us know what they say at Loomis...
Beth, you might also try that surgeon up in Woodland, Linda Van Hoogmoed. She'd be a really good resource and she is such a nice lady that I'm sure she'd look at your photos and give you another opinion. (And she's closer!)
Katie
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Post by paintedlady on Apr 10, 2008 11:56:00 GMT -5
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Post by frr2 on Apr 10, 2008 12:07:19 GMT -5
He actually gets around very well, considering. The parts of the hoof that were cut off didn't affect that at all, just kept it from bumping into his leg. He is a very happy little guy.
Last night I was petting the side of his neck, just telling him he's a good boy and we're going to take care of him. He kept looking at me with a look of "I like what you are doing... but *why* are you doing it? No one ever did that before....." Definitely going to be a sweet boy when he's better.
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Post by mickeyfan3 on Apr 10, 2008 12:20:42 GMT -5
That poor baby........it just breaks my heart when animals and children don't know what a kind word, a soft voice, or a hug is.......I can't wait to meet this guy.
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Post by agilitygal on Apr 10, 2008 12:41:29 GMT -5
Amazing. Totally amazing.
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Post by cybercat on Apr 10, 2008 12:47:34 GMT -5
I'm so glad that you and Peg ended up with him, Beth. He'll have the best of specialized care through you...
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 10, 2008 12:50:33 GMT -5
OK, the poop from the vet is this... they see it that he has lived with these feet a looong time, so no hurry... but see that his nutritional deprivation make him a very poor sedation risk... soooo, we have to get him back to health before we can do any sedation and big hoof treatment....
so, we called our local vet to come get xrays, monday. he will get plain old xrays, develop them and we will see if the internal structures are there and normal-ish... then we will decide if he 'can' make rehab.
if so, and the vet is fairly confident that he is probalby just neglect and CAN do ok (!) then we do some trimming from the initial xrays, and *try* to get him standing on the hoof sole... then, we go in a month or two if needed to a vet clinic with digital and a farrier and sedate and go for a more 'severe' corrective trim if needed (like if we can't get him on the hoof sole, and need bracing and trim under xray guideance)
until then, Dr Fielding at Loomis and our vet agree, use the UC Davis refeeding program, cautioius worming, etc as we have discussed before... and we will see what the xrays show.
What a sweet pony he is guys.... this is heartwrenching and I wish there was a way to get retribution for him, but I'm afraid there is not. this was an older man with Parkinsons who lost his financial abilities as well as physical abilities to care for his animals or his home, and lost them all. I do not think anyone would file charges. but it's also unlikely he will get horses again.
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Post by calypso on Apr 10, 2008 17:53:29 GMT -5
jingles for the baby and for all of you!
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Post by agilitygal on Apr 10, 2008 18:40:27 GMT -5
Love him for all the rest of us. Ok?
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 11, 2008 1:48:42 GMT -5
Thanks guys, the jingles are certainly keeping the little fella going! he is hungry, and gets up and eats, then lays down to rest... but he's brighter every day! I picked up his feet tonight,and brushed him all over... he has lots of hay and weeds and stuff in his fur, so got a lot ofhta out... he isn't sure what that is all about, that 'love' stuff... but he likes it. His friend is Bob, our draft who just got home from training this week... they have a half wall between them and they are so darn cute! Bob's head is as big as the entire pony almost, but he is gentle and sweet with him... grooms him gently.. and the pony prefers to stand with him... I think he's doing pretty good... he is very stinky about lifting his feet, but he will get over that.. .lol.. guess he has to have something to assert himself over! I felt around, can't FEEL testie-tickles, but I bet they are there... so far so good... thanks guys... if he keeps this up I'll let him out in the paddock if he is up to walking over the weekend for a bit of sunshine... when you are vertically challenged it's hard in a barn! even tho we have dutch doors he can't see over! I'll also get him a stall guard put up so he can see out if all goes well... no pics tonight...
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Post by calypso on Apr 11, 2008 2:18:56 GMT -5
still jingling! I'm glad he's hanging in there!
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 11, 2008 6:32:12 GMT -5
With that re-feeding program - PLEASE make sure to offer a good free choice mineral or a daily vitamin to help balance the alfalfa. The biggest issue I have with that program is the fact that the study was done using only Senior feed, Alfalfa and oat hay - no grass hay - JMO - but, I would do an alfalfa grass mix rather than straight alfalfa, and i would also get him some free choice minerals - not a block. The ADM gro-strong minerals would be my first choice.
Take care, Sara
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 11, 2008 13:19:16 GMT -5
Thanks Sara, I can get Gro-strong... the bag of loose mineral...
and so far I have only got a grass/alfalfa mix hay here at home... which is more than he got (alfalfa) where he was... he was on "nuthin" for a long time, then the rescue started feeding the round bales, so that is likely just grass... what I have is Orchard grass with alfalfa... it is a new load, which is a nice soft grass cutting, with lots of alfalfa. We are up to 4 meals a day of about 4 lb of hay each... (basically free fed) and he always has a bowl of pellets, which he won't touch.... those are Elk Grove Milling Stable Mix... I will go get the gro strong, do I just put it in a bowl? I've always measured mineral/vitamins and put it in a meal...
I am going to try adding a bit of a 'grain' bowl for him, something sweet, to try to get him interested in the pellets... I think he can eat more that way, and I can add some supps if he'd just eat out of a bowl! but, I do remember, this has gone on a LONG time, and there is no rush to get him all the stuff in one day....
So, Sara, would you just stick with my grass alfalfa mix hay? I've tested it (use the same grower) for several years, over 15 tests on this guys hays, and they are all about 12% NSC, and moderate protien... moderate iron... and naturally sucky mineral mix... :-) and I 'have' loose minerals to make an additive... copper, zinc, phos, and mag... if needed.. oh, also have vit e, se, and salt... (and cinnamon in 50 # box!!!) would the hay be better? and supp with an old recipe for balancing from past years? or I can test this hay too, and reserve him a few bales (that would last him a lifetime! he is so tiny!) He does seem to like this hay.... having good poo's, formed but not hard.. plenty of balls... he's drinking well... and his eyes are brightening. will do a wormer this weekend, panacur.
THANKS!!!
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Post by watermarkfarm on Apr 11, 2008 14:08:14 GMT -5
Hi Beth,
I was able to get Argus "trained" to eat pellets by first giving him alfalfa meal with molasses, then adding pellets, gradually eliminating the alfalfa meal. He would not touch grain or pellets or anything like that to start ---- acted like they were rocks!
Also...
I spoke with someone recently who said that since the initial Dr. Stull/Davis refeeding study, they are now saying that grass hay should be used and not just straight alfalfa..... The source for this information was Susan Garlinghouse, the beet pulp lady. Try checking with her as she seemed to know more current refeeding advice.
Mkgbuegel turned me on to a mineral supplement from Dynamite called Izmine. I have used that with Argus and found that it almost immediately helped with all his aches and joint pain, like within 48 hours.
Katie
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 11, 2008 15:22:28 GMT -5
When a horse is this far emaciated - sugar and grains are the LAST thing you want to happen - it can overload the system and cause alot of problems. for at LEAST 30 days I would stick to a strictly foraged based program. What this means- FREE CHOICE grass alfalfa hay - as much as he will eat throughout the day picking at it. BUT - since he isn't so much into grains - try this. Get some alfalfa cubes and some alfalfa pellets. sprinkle the SLIGHLY soaked cubes and the pellets over the top of his hay At SOME point he will try one - may not be while you are looking - actually, it is generally when you ARENT looking lol. But, once he starts to figure out good things come in pellet form you are all set. If you can - feed in a large tub of some sort, so that if the pellets fall to the bottom, they are not getting waisted into the bedding. This si what I always did with the PMU foals that knew NOTHING about grains/pellets Works every time! I would put out about a cup at a time of loose minerals in a tub/bucket hung in his stall- he may gobble them initially - that is A-OK - just let him have all he wants. As his body stabilizes, the consumption will level out! On the other side, he may not touch them at all - some horses are different that way. SO - once you notice he is starting to pick at the pellets easily and has figured out they are tasty - put a seperate bowl out, wet them slightly - and sprinkle 2-3 tablespoons per day of minerals over the top. Once he is eating those with enthusiasm - it is tiem to add some soaked beet pulp. Make SURE to get a clean brand - Naturwise makes a fairly clean beet pulp. Rinse it prior to soaking- then soak completely. Start him with a SMALL amount - as he gets used to it, slowly up the amount. Remember - beet pulp soaks up HUGE!!!! For at least 30 days - I would give just forage product - no grains, no mix pellets. Ect. I also would be really careful about deworming for at least 14 days until he is perked up a little more. De-worming can really stress the system and can cause setbacks. Anytime I have a kid like this- I do everything VERY slow - I don't deworm or vaccinate generally for at LEAST 30 days unless we have a crissis situation with the worms. The one thing I ALWAYS do for these guys is give a full tube of probios gel every day for the first 7 days, then I give 1 tube weekly for at least 60 days there after. It helps re-populate the gut with the good bacteria and helps them get as much nutrition out of the food they are eating as possible. After 30 days or so, then you can start to add a little feed in - like a handful a day - Hopefully by this time, he is eating at least a pound a day of beet pulp(remember, you measure dry, THEN soak) I don't start any oil or fat product for the first 30-60 days. Oil can cause digestive upset - and for a horse that has just recently be re-introduced back to normal food, it can be an overload and cause serious diarhea. I do suggest adding a good vitamin along with the minerals - Horseguard are my choice, but another good one is Platinum performance - but that is a powder, so a bit harder to get down him if he isn't eating pellets or grains. Mostly - hay and plenty of it - Probios - and plenty of it - Alfalfa pellets - Alfalfa cubes - and slowly start soaked beet pulp.(I soak the beet pulp then JUST before feeding mix it 1 part beet pulp to 3 parts alfalfa pellets - since he already likes the alfalfa pellets That woudl be what I do - of course there are a million ways to do things... But I always worried alot about overloading the system and causing sugar shock - which can be devistating. Giving this little one some banimane may also make him a little more comfortable so he feels like eating more Even if he seems ok - pain can be EXHAUSTING - it drains calories and can cause lack of appetite. Just my thoughts I am so glad he is with you. Sara
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 11, 2008 15:52:53 GMT -5
Thanks Sara and Katie, I/we can't ever get enough help with these guys! I always feel the need to 'run it by' everyone to make sure my brain is still on the right track... so thanks for listening! and even more for helping!!!
SO, I'll stick to the alfalfa/grass hay mix, and as he is up to free feeding, of course keep that up... I was thinking of just a handful of any feed is plenty for him... I seriously picked him up last night so think he weighs 100 lb or less...
do I give a full tube of probios? I think I have one, but I can get more... he is tiny...
I figure he has been 'fed' for almost 3 weeks now from the time the other rescue started their feeding, and now us... but will hold on worming a while longer... this took a long time, it won't hurt to wait, and if it might hurt, well...
I'll get the Gro strong tonight... 1 cup in bucket... and start adding some alfalfa pellets on top of his hay now? or wait on that too?
I have been feeding him the hay on the mats, as he seems to have no idea that a bucket/black rubber tub... contains 'food'... sigh... will move him to a tub as he recognises his neverending supply of food... :-) and will follow it.
Have beet pulp, will add... but not until later... I have waited a few months before, with our last couple of starvations... to add anything but alfalfa pellets... but they all knew what pellets WERE! sigh, this is my first sick one to not know that. the PMU babies and mares didn't know pellets, but also didn't NEED any! LOL!!!
thanks guys... more pics over the weekend I'm sure... anyone with ideas on how the heck you could trim him to get him to weight the hoof more on the 'sole'... I'm searching and searching for some way... I'm a very mental imagery person, so need to figure out in my mind how we'd accomplish the deal before we start hacking off hoof wall... :-) and I can't seem to find any where a case study of a hoof that looks like this... only curled forward...
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Post by MustangAppy on Apr 11, 2008 16:02:52 GMT -5
Maybe Darrell could offer some advice (my barefoot trimmer). He has an online form for questions. E-mail him a link to the photos. www.progressivehoof.com
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Post by pnp4kidz on Apr 11, 2008 16:31:42 GMT -5
oooh, thanks! I'm emailing Pete Ramey too... :-) can't hurt , all he can say is 'sorry'
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Apr 11, 2008 19:32:00 GMT -5
I would start the alfalfa pellets now - just sprinkle them around on the hay Eventually curiosity will get him and he will try one Even being tiny - I would give a full tube to start - split it between morning and evening - do that first, then half tube every day for the next 6 days. After that give a full tube a week - you can split into several doses When they have the stress of starvation, illness/injury, as well as the stress of moving - it can REALLY screw up teh good bacteria in the tummy. You can't really over-do the probiotics IMO - I know there was a good discussion about it on another thread. I bet he turns the corner to health pretty quickly!!! Take care, Sara
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Post by calypso on Apr 11, 2008 21:38:36 GMT -5
Beth, How about checking in with Scott Bell? He might be up to the challenge! mta: I printed it to pdf and sent it to Scott. If he thinks it's beyond him, perhaps he can open the door to Pete? The one dynamite product I used was the free choice minerals. I used 4 of them - salt, izmine, 1 to 1, and 2 to 1. For details about what they contain: dynamitemarketing.com/Horse_Product_Info.htmI'm not a big dynamite fan - (not anti either - just seems like a lot of $$ and a lot of hype), but I do like the free choice minerals. It was interesting to see what Kaleigh and Angel would chose to scarf down!
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Post by watermarkfarm on Apr 12, 2008 8:37:32 GMT -5
Oh, by alfalfa meal I meant a teensy handful! Enough to get 'em interested in what's in the bucket and stick to things like the probiotics (can't ever say enuf about them!).
Sheesh, Beth, just feeding him some hay is a major miracle. Poor little pony!
Katie
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